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Live/push updates

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:44 pm
by tedlogan
I'm glad the Beta site is taking suggestions with voting by us, but zero of the updates reflect any of the suggestions since 9.1.0, some of which are way overdue. It's basically just tiny micro bug fixes and Mac support.

I'm guessing we won't see any of the suggestions in Live any time soon, as they would first appear in Beta no? Then after tested to be bug-free would we see release candidates. And surely they won't all suddenly appear in one update as it could be too buggy and difficulty to weed out the problems.

Is it hard to implement at least modwheel functionality for Push? It can't be! This is such an important basic feature for any synth. I'll trade pitchbend for modwheel any day. I know of 2 M4L devices which enable modwheel functionality: Keyboard Control, which means you operate it via an encoder (not ideal), and I believe this device totally floods the undo history, entering small increments of data as undo steps...nightmare. Keyboard Control 2 works much better, allowing you to map the touchstrip to anything, but if you save it into your racks and load another rack also containing this device, Live will crash. If anyone can point me to a simple modwheel device for Push I'd appreciate it btw. I don't use PXT's one as I'd have to enter user mode and record modwheel stuff after the fact, defeating the point of a modwheel (for me at least).

Other things off the top of my head which are overdue:

Note sequencer improvements: hearing notes as you enter them, transposing and moving notes, fold etc
Macros: Infinite macros (via + button) with renameable banks
VST configure panel: renaming of parameters + renaming of banks + blank spaces
Envelopes: snap to grid, typing values, invert, reverse, double, halve etc
Browser: customisation, option to put PLACES at the top when using Push, tagging, colourcoding etc
Clips: in-clip audio editing, multi-clip editing, etc
Push drumrack mixer control
Push clip moving,copying,loading,browsing
Banishing to the lowest depths of Hell the "Press up/down arrow to edit playing clip" message

Ableton - are you working on at least some of this stuff? An understandably cryptic answer will totally satisfy me. I just want to know if we're wasting our time suggesting stuff.

Modwheel. Please give me a modwheel. My toys are lying outside my pram.

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:16 pm
by irrelevance
Not sure if Push testing is part of the beta cycle at all tbh. It's a class compliant device, there isn't gonna be any change to push performance from one computer to the next. The new skinnerbox device is marketed directly for push but I can't imagine it's been beta tested to any degree. As it's based on max code and controller scripts which are known and quantafiable i.e they can be tested without the controllers even being connected.
Based on this logic and a cryptic answer received from the beta forum I would imagine push related stuff >could< come at any time.

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:12 am
by ezelkow1
tedlogan wrote: Modwheel. Please give me a modwheel. My toys are lying outside my pram.

Its been suggested since day one since even 50$ midi keyboards have a damn modwheel. The majority of presets out there for synths will use a modwheel in some form or fashion and if not its the easiest way for a user to add some of their own flare to sounds. It seemed like a no-brainer functionality addition that it still amazes me that after all this time it has not been added yet

And yes, someone will inevitably bring up that its available in a third party script, and to that I say, I dont care. The company who produced the product should take enough pride in it to at least match the features of other midi keyboards out there and not depend on people purchasing third party solutions that could be broken at any time by an update. The feature being available in a third party script makes it even more of a let down since an outside user managed to add the functionality only a few weeks after the product hit the market and a year and a half later ableton has not added something so simple

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:39 am
by eyeknow

And it's one of the reasons I've taken on the challenge of bitwig. Tedlogan is just one of a handful of people that have been VERY VERY active over at the beta site and I for one appreciate it.

No, I'm not some twit who expects everything to be implemented IMMD, but I honestly think that live, and especially push, have been a bit forsaken of late. Seems strange that there has been such a long time with little to no "real" updates.

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:06 am
by tummes

It is weird that I didn't notice if there were updates at all in the last 6 months. But I assume their saving feature updates for a new release and are working on bigger overhaul on the side. That's the only explanation I can come up with. Or Ableton is not that big of a company as I thought and the little bug fixes are really taking so much time.

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:12 am
by eyeknow
True. It's really difficult to tell. Are they ignoring us? (unlikely) or, "they are working on 10 (or at least 9.5)

Tough. I don't think that they are ignoring us though, if that means anything.

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:53 pm
by Asymmetricalmusic
They're ignoring us big time!

they started a damn change log that no one from Ableton has posted to in over a year

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:29 pm
by ezelkow1

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:29 am
by irrelevance
He's talking about the Push change log posted by Jesse (Terry?) here:


Here's Jesse Terry's View on Push prior to launch taken from the soundonsound push/live 9 review. I urge you all to reread it. ... /live9.htm

How were Live 9's development and features influenced by what was required for Push?

Push and Live were dreamed up independently for the most part, and we had a dedicated team of developers working only on Push. (where r they now?)

Why did you think Push was a product worth pursuing, given the range of dedicated Ableton controllers already on the market?

There are a few good solutions for launching clips and controlling Live in a performance setting, but nothing that is dedicated to [music] creation with Live, and nothing out there that is as tightly integrated with Live. We had to open up considerable parts of our code for Push. Many things that Push does with Live simply weren't possible before, and certainly not with the tightness and visual feedback we've implemented. The controllers on the market are good for 'controlling' a set of tracks, but we see Push as an instrument that focuses on what goes into one track, be it drums, melody or harmony.

It's not possible for another product out there to have the integration we have with Push, because we are literally creating the code to make it work as we go. Push is plug-and-play, so you don't need third-party hacks or workarounds to make it work.


PatrickDSP Keyboard control
Strays Aftertouch device
Native kontrol push script change (shift double tap etc)
Live devices Community mappings
Pxt live and Pxt live plus
Bomes MT Player
Isotonik Launchsync pro

And push is getting close to the kind of control potential we users a year and some in know it's capable of. The Max4live community is awesome, Max is awesome and so too is Live and Ableton but damn...

Re: Live/push updates

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:06 am
by ezelkow1
push's release notes get rolled in to the main ableton ones, always listed under the 'changes for push' section on those 2 links

he obviously gave up updating that list when they started rolling it in to those, theres a slight overlap period and then his stop