Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Thanks1111
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Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Thanks1111 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:17 pm

OK, I splurged and ordered Ableton Suite and Push. Funny thing is I never even heard of Ableton until 4 weeks ago. Once I saw video of Ableton and Push I was sold. I have a background in music production as I went to Recording school in NYC in 1981, Interned at Hit Factory in 1982, but life put me in a different direction and at age 52, the time is right to get back into music. Plus, I have been guitar for 37 years in every genre and know the fretboard inside/out. I love it all from JS Bach, Hendrix, Megadeath, trance, blues, funk , jazz and even play classical on my only guitar which is a nylon string with built in mic/tuner and output.

SO HERE IS MY DILEMMA AND ANYONE WHO TAKES THE TIME TO READ THIS AND GUIDE ME IN RIGHT DIRECTION I THANK YOU. AS THE GREAT AC/DC SAID, FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, I SOLUTE YOU. I LOVE THAT HEAVY SHIT. MAKES ME AT AGE 52 STILL BANG MY HEAD. ANY, I want to purchase the best MIDI guitar rig within limits. So here are my simple questions.

1.) IF I take output of nylon string guitar and go into say a focusrite 2i2 on sale today for $149, I can get nylon string signal in Ableton. I realize it's eventually digital but mo MIDI was sent over to Ableton. I watched a video from a Dubsput instructor who said he has tried every midi combination possible and every micup, and he said the best way to record guitar MIDI is to go audio into ableton and convert to MIDI inside ableton. Here is link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hSU7FzN1cY

2) I also watched another dude absolutely crush his sound using a Fender with MIDI pickup, through Roland guitar synth and direct into Ableton. Here is link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAalqu_NifA He used his guitar to control the VST software Massive. He was playing like a musician where in first video, guy was trying to write techno.

3.) So my question is, should I go the Roland Guitar synth way which has an external sound module and also passes audio and MIDI into Ableton. Or is guy in first video correct. I also want to be able to sit outside and play along tracks I made and thought running a guitar synth might be cool through small amp, or even when DJing, stepping away from DJ booth and use Fender setup to jam live. People dig that.

4.) Last option is getting Fishman triple play. But I don't know the latency issues involved with all these different setups.

Thanks friends.

fishmonkey
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:01 am

badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

JoshG567
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by JoshG567 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:52 am

The M4L devices in the Max 7 update include some pitch followers. I'm excited to try them. MIDI guitar isn't bad at all, but I'd rather pay for Max.

joeyfivecents
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by joeyfivecents » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:06 am

JoshG567 wrote:The M4L devices in the Max 7 update include some pitch followers. I'm excited to try them. MIDI guitar isn't bad at all, but I'd rather pay for Max.
Which devices are you talking about in particular? I have Max 7 but haven't tried to use it with guitar...
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Buleriachk » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:11 am

fishmonkey wrote:check this out:

http://jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/


Yes! This works as well as any hardware, even for nylon string. You need a decent pickup, but not a fantastic one. Try the demo, you'll be amazed. At least I certainly was...

JoshG567
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by JoshG567 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:32 am

joeyfivecents wrote:
JoshG567 wrote:The M4L devices in the Max 7 update include some pitch followers. I'm excited to try them. MIDI guitar isn't bad at all, but I'd rather pay for Max.
Which devices are you talking about in particular? I have Max 7 but haven't tried to use it with guitar...
I saw one called "Pitch Tracker" in a list here: https://cycling74.com/max7/ I'm assuming it does the same thing, not sure what else it would do...

mmorgan
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by mmorgan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:44 pm

Buleriachk wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:check this out:

http://jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/


Yes! This works as well as any hardware, even for nylon string. You need a decent pickup, but not a fantastic one. Try the demo, you'll be amazed. At least I certainly was...
I have an AXON AX100 with a Godin SA guitar and the Fishman unit as well. I no longer use either one. The Jam Origin MIDI guitar is the most flexible approach and tracking is as good as either of the hardware solutions. You can save some money (a lot of money) by opting for the Jam Origin also. ++Jam Origin.
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slatepipe
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by slatepipe » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:41 pm

i got a custom one stringed bass made a few years ago. it has a regular jack out for audio but also a midi guitar cable that goes into a roland gr30. then that sends midi into ableton via usb. it also sends audio into another channel too. midi pickups are built into the bass, made by a company called graphtec

i control it using an fcb 1010 pedal board with a max for live patch which some genius friend made for me

i can play any sound on any fret. i have it set up with different synths on different channels, field recordings, samples, drums. works pretty well. i want to get my head around using it with pitch bend a bit better, and aftertouch too

but for now it's pretty good

here's an interview : http://www.ableton-live-expert.com/arti ... ontroller/

and some films of it being used :
https://vimeo.com/101074394
https://vimeo.com/96520631
https://vimeo.com/91791306

Kent_in_CO
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Kent_in_CO » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:08 pm

Greetings \m/

I was just jamming along to Hangar 18.

Consider this another vote for the Jam Origin VST. I tried it when it was still in Beta, but man it's impressive. Latency is manageable, polyphony works well, and best of all no having to worry about extra hardware.

Going the dedicated hardware route might offer superior performance...but I would give the Midi Guitar demo a shot first. It could save you a lot of trouble.
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Buleriachk » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:13 pm

Kent_in_CO wrote:Greetings \m/
Going the dedicated hardware route might offer superior performance...but I would give the Midi Guitar demo a shot first. It could save you a lot of trouble.
I don't know about superior performance with dedicated hardware, unless you have a used Cray around. These days, computers are much more powerful than hardware, at least last time I looked. (Well, ok, maybe a Netbook, but even then....)

Jekblad
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Jekblad » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:22 pm

I love jam origin plugin. Great for 9/10 things.

if you're looking to take the processing out of your CPU go with Fishman triple play. Easy install, nice price.
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Buleriachk » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:29 pm

Jekblad wrote:I love jam origin plugin. Great for 9/10 things.

if you're looking to take the processing out of your CPU go with Fishman triple play. Easy install, nice price.
I don't think the Tripleplay works for nylon strings... JamOrigin does..

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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Jekblad » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:09 pm

eek! I should have read more carefully. sorry about that. Def try the jam origin demo then.
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Kent_in_CO
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Kent_in_CO » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:46 pm

<< I don't know about superior performance with dedicated hardware, unless you have a used Cray around. These days, computers are much more powerful than hardware, at least last time I looked. (Well, ok, maybe a Netbook, but even then....) >>

The advantages with hardware in this case - specifically, a MIDI pickup going through a dedicated outboard Guitar Synth - would be:

1.) Much less latency

2.) Better polyphonic response

3.) The unique sounds out of the synth (if that's your thing)

But that's where the Jam Origin VST is a game-changer...it handles polyphony nicely (not perfect, but serviceable), and latency is also minimal assuming your setup is solid. So yea, there might still be a use case for a hardware solution but computer advancements are narrowing the gap big-time.
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Re: Best MIDI guitar rig for Ableton 9

Post by Buleriachk » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:16 pm

hardware uses processors just like computers. But an i7 is way more powerful than any processor in a hardware sound-midi convertor. So then it depends on a/d conversion. But I will bet that my Focusrite 18i8 is much better (or at least as good) as the a/d converter in dedicated hardware).

Of course the sounds of the synth may be an issue. But to compare Komplete with the hardware symth?

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