APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:46 am

nathannn wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Akai's web site has nothing but promotional crap, the support doesn't link to any Midi specifications either.

!
Found both of your problems.

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:47 am

TomViolenz wrote:
Buleriachk wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
I want to point out a main difference about both our complaints though: Yours is that the device doesn't work the way you'd like it to (which I agree with mostly btw).

Mine is, that the damn thing is broken :x
I can simply not use it in ANY way unless I delete all my Midi mappings.

I think that this is way worse!
Re: the title of your thread. I am just helping to point out the many ways; not just yours...

That said: I've never run into your problem (Midi mapping in Live, if I understand it correctly) with the APC's (or at least I never noticed it, since my mappings work fine, and are persistent - I can plug other controllers - Push, APC40 Mk2, in and out without issues, etc. - I Midi mapped scene buttons to Clyphx clips, since I don't use scenes, and everything works as expected, even transferring sets to/from my mid-tower to my laptop.), but I empathize. Are you using Mac or Win? (I am win7 x64)
Mac
How long is your list of things you Midi mapped? Bigger than 60?!

I would really like it if people, who use a lot of Midi mappings and have the APC Mini could report here if they have the same problems.

I have more than 500 parameters mapped and plugging in the APC Mini makes Live unusable. This is with only the APC Mini plugged in. The other contollers that the mappings belong to are unplugged.
500 may sound like a lot, but it's really not that much. Most of this is just on my DrumRack track. and the sends

For instance on my Maschine MK1 (this btw it a really good example of how you build a Midi controller and supply with the ControllerEditor very powerfull software for it even outside of it's core use!), which I use as a Midi controller in Live, just assigning the channel pressure of all 16 pads on all 8 pad groups already gives you 128 parameters. It's still only 16 plus 8 physical buttons.
And so it goes on.

I also don't assign willi nilly, everything is a well thought out layout of how I would need everything accessible to me to do what I want to do in a live situation. Everything follows a need!

I'm working on this live set for over a year now, building it and learning to play it.
I only bought the APC Mini because it fills a very specific need for a new workflow I have in mind and that I have already tested with the Launchpad. But the faders of the APC Mini would make this so much smoother in its result.

So this is really setting me back :x

Btw, I don't think it's Live that's at fault, because adding other controllers gives me no problems at all.

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:48 am

nathannn wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Akai's web site has nothing but promotional crap, the support doesn't link to any Midi specifications either.

!
Found both of your problems.
Is that a known thing for Akai?! Shit support?

Wish I'd known that before :x

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:49 am

Buleriachk wrote:Akai at least recognizes my issue in t/s return emails...
Ableton now just says "Deal with it"..

The frustrating thing is that I KNOW that the script can be rewritten to include Session Overview; I've looked at the Python script enough to know that. It is not a hardware issue; it is laziness on the part of the programmers.

And these are Session devices related to BOTH Push and the APC40, which are their flagship devices, which one uses in the studio to program and set up banks for live performance....

WTF are they thinking.....???

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:52 am

TomViolenz wrote:
Buleriachk wrote:Akai at least recognizes my issue in t/s return emails...
Ableton now just says "Deal with it"..

The frustrating thing is that I KNOW that the script can be rewritten to include Session Overview; I've looked at the Python script enough to know that. It is not a hardware issue; it is laziness on the part of the programmers.

And these are Session devices related to BOTH Push and the APC40, which are their flagship devices, which one uses in the studio to program and set up banks for live performance....

WTF are they thinking.....???
I don't know, but apparently not much if they can't even give it a decent Midi driver :evil:

Everyone be warned!!!

Buleriachk
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by Buleriachk » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:31 pm

Yes, Akai/Ableton really piss me off, and these purchases were a waste of my money and it is unconscionable that they didn't inform of us of the "gotcha's" (especially when the original documentation said it would work as expected). Who would've thought that in a session oriented device, banks switching would be eliminated in favor of track/scene incremental movement; one would assume they were made to work with sessions created by their flagship products (Push, APC40) would not implement a way of switching banks like Launchpad.

The money isn't all THAT much, but it WAS wasted, especially on those of us who automatically assumed banks would be implemented in the normal way.

I call absolute bullshit on them!!

And the most infuriating thing is that it would be SO easy to fix in the Python code... it is hard to believe that it is a hardware issue....

djesa
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by djesa » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:49 pm

+1 :x

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:34 pm

Buleriachk wrote:Yes, Akai/Ableton really piss me off, and these purchases were a waste of my money and it is unconscionable that they didn't inform of us of the "gotcha's" (especially when the original documentation said it would work as expected). Who would've thought that in a session oriented device, banks switching would be eliminated in favor of track/scene incremental movement; one would assume they were made to work with sessions created by their flagship products (Push, APC40) would not implement a way of switching banks like Launchpad.

The money isn't all THAT much, but it WAS wasted, especially on those of us who automatically assumed banks would be implemented in the normal way.

I call absolute bullshit on them!!

And the most infuriating thing is that it would be SO easy to fix in the Python code... it is hard to believe that it is a hardware issue....
I think you should check out clyphx control surface actions. I think you can move the grid/banks and other stuff of other controllers.
You could then actually use the Minis arrow buttons for Midi assigning to clips with that change bank action.


But my problem doesn't seem to be a script issue, but more a Midi driver issue.

Because I am also having this problem in Midi mode. And it's somehow linked to the number of Midi assignements I have.

I think it needs a firmware update or a driver from Akai, phyton scripts wont do.

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:43 pm

Well thanks to Ableton giving our spammer a stern warning :roll: .....the "spam free thread" promise for this thread could not be kept and he didn't even need a new account for it either.

Well done Ableton :x

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:41 pm

Ha now the spam got deleted without a trace and I look like a fool for mentioning it. :roll:

Anyways, about time! :x

irrelevance
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by irrelevance » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:35 pm

Buleriachk wrote:Yes, Akai/Ableton really piss me off, and these purchases were a waste of my money and it is unconscionable that they didn't inform of us of the "gotcha's" (especially when the original documentation said it would work as expected). Who would've thought that in a session oriented device, banks switching would be eliminated in favor of track/scene incremental movement; one would assume they were made to work with sessions created by their flagship products (Push, APC40) would not implement a way of switching banks like Launchpad.

The money isn't all THAT much, but it WAS wasted, especially on those of us who automatically assumed banks would be implemented in the normal way.

I call absolute bullshit on them!!

And the most infuriating thing is that it would be SO easy to fix in the Python code... it is hard to believe that it is a hardware issue....


It's unfortunate for sure.I'm not sure where ableton are going with Live controller solutions but right now it seems like a free for all There doesn't seem to be any standard or guidlines (nothing made available to end users anyway) that manufacturers should be following. Each written scipt can be vastly different from the same developer.And then there is the lack of max for live detail on controllers (is this being purposely held back to support 3rd party manufacturers turn a buck? After all how many dedicated controllers can one sell when the community has full disclosure and can customize any midi device to serve it's needs.There I go with the paranoia again...)

In any case if you want to build a vst write a rack extension there are guidlines/standard practice, user expectations etc, more importantly documentation to support the developer meet those requirements...
Seems this race has been made to favour the swift.

muthafunka
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by muthafunka » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:33 am

TomViolenz wrote:
nathannn wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Akai's web site has nothing but promotional crap, the support doesn't link to any Midi specifications either.

!
Found both of your problems.
Is that a known thing for Akai?! Shit support?

Wish I'd known that before :x

Akai are unfortunately owned by this lot now http://www.inmusicbrands.com/

I have recent personal experience with (same parent company as Akai now) MAudio products and their hardware suppport. Their pseudo-forum thing, which Akai also use is (I'm fairly sure deliberately) infuriatingly shitty and pretty pointless and ongoing hardware support is a half-assed patch-up of what should have been beyond obvious in the first place.....if you get anything at all (see the recent Akai Rhythm Wolf drum machine mess). I'm currently fighting to get a Trigger Finger Pro refunded - same pattern > promising product brought to market half-baked followed by lame-ass arm's-length support. Funny how so many of those inmusic.com brands have 'pro' added to their names.

john gordon
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by john gordon » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:25 am

Should have bought a Volvo mate!

muthafunka
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by muthafunka » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:38 am

not a Volvo Pro though.....

TomViolenz
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Re: APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:35 am

muthafunka wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Is that a known thing for Akai?! Shit support?

Wish I'd known that before :x

Akai are unfortunately owned by this lot now http://www.inmusicbrands.com/

I have recent personal experience with (same parent company as Akai now) MAudio products and their hardware suppport. Their pseudo-forum thing, which Akai also use is (I'm fairly sure deliberately) infuriatingly shitty and pretty pointless and ongoing hardware support is a half-assed patch-up of what should have been beyond obvious in the first place.....if you get anything at all (see the recent Akai Rhythm Wolf drum machine mess). I'm currently fighting to get a Trigger Finger Pro refunded - same pattern > promising product brought to market half-baked followed by lame-ass arm's-length support. Funny how so many of those inmusic.com brands have 'pro' added to their names.
That's really unfortunte, but explains a lot :x
Their knowledge base doesn't even list the APC Mini yet and the forum is almost dead and does not have one single post for the APC Mini either.

I think this makes it clear that any hope of a future fix of the driver (or whatever is causing this) is futile. Especially since it will probably not affect most of the casual user that this device is apparently aimed at.

I will give this thing one more try today and then it goes back to the store for a refund.
I think another Launchpad is in the cards for me. Automap may make you pull out your hair at times (especially if you use it for plug-in mappings), but at least it is absolutely stable and it gives you a Midi editor. And the device is great.

Really too bad, I really liked the idea of having a fader for each button column :(

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