APC Mini is a piece of shit. New Spam free thread.

[Buleriachk]

Fair On that note, maybe Ableton would even be willing to give away the code for free if being asked nicely ?
Afterall, it would drastically enhance the functionality of the Mini, which can only be good for Ableton.

The code for the APC Mini is already available; it is only a Python script, which can be easily de-compiled, edited, and re-compiled. You can then use the script in Live with no issue (I have done this for several Remote scripts, especially Push)

But it is true that the code for the APC Mini probably had to be completely re-written; some could have been copied over from the Key 25, but it was complex, extending over a number of modules, as far as I could tell... the code was not written well at all, at least from what I was able to tell ....

[yur2die4]

I have not seen the copyright personally, but I imagine that it is most stressed towards those who intend to make money from scripts, or those who copy the concept to profit competitors or something. Of course, a copyright is a copyright, so if you are a professional who wants to keep a clean reputation and is already making a good name for his self you would not want to eat the apple when there are plenty of other things to do in Eden haha.

Those who use it and are clearly not selling a product, it probably benefits Ableton to an extent and they probably decide not to pry. If no one is making a fuss, why stir things up.

[beatz01]

probably

imagine

It's all good but why not straight out *ask* either Ableton and/or mots if they make their code available?
Note: "Available" as in "you can use the code for this purpose", i.e. officially granting a (free) license.

I mean instead of wondering and guessing, one could just ask, no ?

[S4racen]

I imagine that it is most stressed towards those who intend to make money from scripts

And that counts us out...

Cheers
D

[pencilrocket]

I still can't believe Ableton released the APC Mini/APC Key25 without SO. Dumbest design/marketing decision EVER!

It is rather clever. They made APC Mini to make Push look better and boost its sale.

[TomViolenz]

I imagine that it is most stressed towards those who intend to make money from scripts

And that counts us out...

Cheers
D

This is all well and good, but copyright doesn't mean "Don't use it" it simply means "Don't use it without permission".
If that permission is granted and if a fee will be attached to that permission is up to Ableton of course.
But asking never hurt anyone.

That said, I don't think I would be interested in using the APC Minis pads for anything but toggling a parameter or triggering a clip. They are just not very good at all.

[TomViolenz]

or those who copy the concept to profit competitors or something.

Considering that we are talking about a script in Phyton that hooks into Lives API, I don't think much would be applicable to any competing DAW anyways.

And if by concept you mean the three parted layout on a 64 pad controller, I doubt you can get a copyright on that.
But then weirder patents have been granted in the past (round corners on a rectangular shape anyone? )

[beatz01]

And that counts us out...

Cheers
D

So have you already talked to Ableton about this ? Did they say they would deny *any* permission or at least only for a fee ?

If not, then why not just ask ?

Too much speculation in this thread..

Sorry for maybe being a pain but sometimes i just don't get it why people prefer to speculate about stuff rather than making a simple phone call.

Apart from that, as said there might also be an option to ask mots about using HIS code..

Or maybe someone should just contact Stray

Really, with some kind of script or M4L tool the Mini could be a great alternative to a normal LP.

[Buleriachk]

That said, I don't think I would be interested in using the APC Minis pads for anything but toggling a parameter or triggering a clip. They are just not very good at all.

I agree with Tom - as a clip launch device (and volume control), the Mini is very handy, especially for playing backing clips/tracks as an accompanying instrument. As a main instrument (chord/melody), the pads are way too small and unresponsive.

If it only had Session Overview, it would be a work of great practicality for the mobile musician. (Also, the APC Key 25, which does give basic instrument input together with clip launch capability, although with a different matrix (I guess Akai viewed it as an adjunct to the APC40.)

But the idiot(s) hamstrung the Key 25 by omitting Session Overview as well. (Actually, the APC Mini Python code is derived from that of the Key 25).

[beatz01]

I disagree.

Given that the Mini is the only device that has an 8x8 grid AND faders that are perfectly in line with the tracks AND clip stop buttons, this in connection with an LP95-ish script/M4L device would potentially make it superiour to the normal Launchpad.

I for one do like the Mini pads a lot more than the original Launchpad ones (i hate that click on them); besides it's not just about the note mode but also about things like step sequencer mode, mixer mode, efx mode etc.With these kind of functions you basically would have best of both worlds - the functionality of the Launchpad but with physical faders and stop buttons.

[Buleriachk]

I disagree.

Given that the Mini is the only device that has an 8x8 grid AND faders that are perfectly in line with the tracks AND clip stop buttons, this in connection with an LP95-ish script/M4L device would potentially make it superiour to the normal Launchpad.

I for one do like the Mini pads a lot more than the original Launchpad ones (i hate that click on them); besides it's not just about the note mode but also about things like step sequencer mode, mixer mode, efx mode etc.With these kind of functions you basically would have best of both worlds - the functionality of the Launchpad but with physical faders and stop buttons.

For that (for me), the Launchpad Pro + J74-ISO makes more sense (no faders, but the ability to switch back and forth between session mode and volume more than makes up for it by saving real estate. And many more advantages that simply make the Mini challenged by comparison. If you need faders in addition to the Launchpad95, there are plenty of alternatives, and if you need both in the same unit, glue them to the same piece of plywood...

But if you are talking about a different unit than the Mini, then I can see improvements on all controllers... (I would even consider using a Launchpad95 or Launchpad Pro together with an APC Mini for instant access to note mode without leaving session mode.)

But, hey, it is question of personal taste and usability - no one is "wrong" here, just different perspectives...

[beatz01]

I don't know of even one device with faders that would perfectly align the faders with the respective tracks on the Launchpad.Either they do perfectly align but have no faders (like the Launchcontrol), or they do have faders but don't align (like the Nanokontrol) or do both but are too clunky (UC33, Launchcontrol XL) or are glued together but only have an 8x5 grid (APC 40/20).

So in that sense the Mini is the only device that combines perfectly fitting faders AND 8x8 grid.All that's missing is the versatile software functionality the original LP and LP95 have.

Btw - you are aware that a Launchpad Pro costs roughly 5 times more than an APC Mini, do you..?

That's actually one more reason why it would make sense to enhance the Mini's abilities through scripting/coding: Because it's so darn affordable.

P.S. @Buleriachk: I don't see the sense in arguing back and forth really.To me (and probably lots of others) an enhancement of the Mini would be totally awesome, for you apparently it wouldn't but it's not like an additional script (possibly made available by Isotonik) would hurt you in any way, would it ? I mean what's the sense in constantly trying to tell me this and that is not needed or "would not be worth it"...?!

[S4racen]

So have you already talked to Ableton about this ? Did they say they would deny *any* permission or at least only for a fee ?

Sorry i can't actually discuss it, just to say that we'll be observing the notes that Ableton have put in there own code regarding it....

Mots has already shown on his thread that he's happy for other people to take over his work for the LP Pro etc. but we'll plough our own furrow...

Cheers
D

[beatz01]

we'll plough our own furrow...

Cheers
D

Fair enough, as long as there's a chance of *something* in the pipeline...

[Buleriachk]

FWIW, I have tested the J74-ISO code on both the Launchpad Mini and the Launchpad Pro; it works very well indeed, and the colors on the Launchpad Pro are gorgeous. I think Fabrizio Poce has done an outstanding job implementing the features, and I had only a few minor quibbles with the release version of the code...\

It also is standalone, so the Launchpad Pro can work with musical instruments independently of a DAW....

http://fabriziopoce.com/isocontrollers.html

I can't wait to see Stray's approach at NativeKontrol, and of course am waiting for Sracen/Isotonik. (I purchase them all - at least everything I can use, since everyone works really hard to make our dreams come true, which were so cruelly cut short by the design engineers at Akai/Ableton..