How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
penguinpajamas
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How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by penguinpajamas » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:27 pm

Hey guys! If there's any concept in production that I'm most intimidated by it has to be compression. Don't get me wrong, I perfectly understand the ideas behind compression, and exactly how compressors work and what they do, but what I'm struggling with is being able to hear when something calls for compression. When I'm producing, I have no idea what needs to be compressed and what doesn't. I can never really tell when I would want to add a compression to a track.

So my question is: what exactly should I listen for when determining when to add a compressor to something. I understand that compression relates to dynamics, but what specifically am I trying to hear or not hear.

Thanks!
Last edited by penguinpajamas on Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:38 pm

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Last edited by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends on Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

dewaldo
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by dewaldo » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:41 pm

I generally like to think of compression as something that adds and maintains the weight/power of elements in the mix... so if something feels like it is drifting in and out of the mix and is generally being overshadowed by other elements that it needs to dominate, i'll add some compression to bring it forward. would love to hear other peoples thoughts

Garry Knight
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Garry Knight » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:59 pm

I'd be listening on a track-by-track basis, soloing each and doing an A/B with the full mix. Vocals where some words are quieter than others, especially if they can't be understood. Guitars or keyboards ("real" instruments") where some notes get lost in the mix. Similarly for drums. If I use a drum loop I might compress it to bring the levels of various sounds up in the drum mix, or I might convert it to MIDI and change the gain within the drum rack. I'll listen to the drum mix and if it doesn't sound as crisp and chunky as I like, I'll put Glue Compressor on the drum submix.

In other words, for me it's all about listening for those bits that you want people to hear but that might not come out.
Garry Knight

Broomptish
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Broomptish » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:55 am

Recently watched a producer masterclass by optical and he says he hates software compressors and never uses them. He made a great point about sidechain compression and how its never consistent and when you create that its sending the bass through a whole new algorithim which is rarely consistent. He would just use volume automation then its always consistent and theres nothing else effecting the bass, for me it was like a wtf seems so obvious then i think of tracks ive made and that lack of consistency is there. He said hed only use them to glue sounds together, volume modulation is going to be far more precise and consistent than a compressor which ime does spit out random effects sometimes. Its just been ingrained in me oh yeah use compressors on practically everything without actually thinking about what they are actually doing, and the issues they can create further down the line. Maybe another way of looking at things, compressors are out the window for me now except glue...

Tarekith
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Tarekith » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:12 am

Sometimes it's what you can't hear that tips you off. For instance if a sound is relatively quiet, but it's pegging your channel meters now and then. Likely you can use a compressor to tame that peak while letting you boost the sound volume more if needed.
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Broomptish
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Broomptish » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:21 am

Also meant to add optical said he much preferred using saturation or distortion to brint things up due to consistency issues, just another point of view, a really interesting one i thought.

penguinpajamas
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by penguinpajamas » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:19 am

Broomptish wrote:Also meant to add optical said he much preferred using saturation or distortion to brint things up due to consistency issues, just another point of view, a really interesting one i thought.
What exactly do you mean by consistency issues?

Broomptish
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Broomptish » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:48 am

penguinpajamas wrote:
Broomptish wrote:Also meant to add optical said he much preferred using saturation or distortion to brint things up due to consistency issues, just another point of view, a really interesting one i thought.
What exactly do you mean by consistency issues?
Consistency In what the compressor puts out. He said it's putting a whole new algorithin in what's fed into it and it's not always the same when putting it back out. I have noticed this myself with sidechain compression, the kicks don't hold a consistent level, would be much better reducing the volume of the bass when the kick hits of for consistent results. This has been true in my experience using side chain compression so he defo has a point plus maybe such algorithms do effect other things when using a compressor to boost a sound or whatever when you could use saturation, distortion or even gain and eq. Not to stray off topic but another thing optical said he hates is eq, he only uses them to cut full highs or lows he doesn't use them to shape the sound/add character as it causes further issues down the line with different frequencies. Great tutorial and highly recommended, I've learned a lot from it.

Basically he's saying modern digital compressors and eqs can't be trusted for certain tasks.

Tarekith
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Tarekith » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:45 am

That's pretty much the exact opposite argument for why analog processing is better :)
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Broomptish
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Broomptish » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:56 am

Tarekith wrote:That's pretty much the exact opposite argument for why analog processing is better :)
Aye know what your saying but when he mentioned the sidechain compressor thing it rang true with me, a constant volume modulation to make the bass duck is going to be more reliable than triggering a compressor, right? He also said he would use analog eqs in the past to enhance certain things but wouldnt touch them in digital. This is just one guys opinion of course but the sidechain thing i was like yes ive noticed my my bass and kicks all over the place with certain tracks, made me think about why am i always using compressors, to enhance things? Make them louder? Compressor isnt the only thing that does that job so its kinda broadened my horizons especially witg their constant use i would employ, plus you cant freeze tracks when sidechained so thats that problem solved for me at least.

Richie Witch
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Richie Witch » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:12 pm

In Mike Senior's book, "Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio", he talks about using compression to get a consistent level on individual tracks. If you're listening to a track and you feel the urge to adjust the fader because it seems to get louder or softer over time, it's a good candidate for compression. Apply only enough compression so that you no longer feel that urge to adjust the fader.

Great book, btw. I'm still working my way through it because there is so much to absorb.
"Watching the Sky" ~ A 4-track EP of piano, strings, and Native American flute

Angstrom
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:13 pm

I think my own bad habits of applying compression when I shouldn't is all done too early in the mix process while I'm trying to create a "fuller" sound. Narrowing the dynamic range sure does make a song fuller, but less punchy and less clear too. It's only when I realise the 100 - 400 range now has a 3db dynamic range I discover my reflex to pump it up has made a temp. mix that's powerfully terrible.

I've started thinking more in terms of "demo recordings" to get around this. I allow myself a terrible scratch mix, but when I can understand what I was aiming for I delete all the compression and EQ, then do it all properly. It usually comes out a lot clearer.

Steve Glen
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by Steve Glen » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:31 pm

Compressors are cool.


Regarding the built-in Live compressor device, you will mostly hear/perceive the effects in the 1.2k-3.7k freq region.

I think you'll begin to learn to hear compression is with transient play. What I mean is the built in device with settings: ratio 4-8, small knee, and threshold at 70%-80% of pre-compression amplitude. Then, using a rawish sample listen to a loop and adjust the attack time up and down. Try this with a snare, kick, piano, and synth.

Next experiment, get a super saw patch. Grab ur compressor and turn off makeup gain. Use a high ratio and slowly bring the treshold down while playing the loop.

Next experiment: compress anything, a bunch, or whatever. Then listen with a narrow band pass to listen to the results.

JoshG567
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Re: How Can I Hear When Compression is Needed?

Post by JoshG567 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:34 pm

Compressors serve many purposes in my approach. I use them early in a guitar/bass chain to snap up the attack and boost sustain pre-amp/cab sim, and then later to accentuate/limit peaks and sometimes even later for ultimate level control via RMS mode. Spreading the work out over several and at strategic points in the chain lets me use more modest settings on each to attain my desired effects than to try to make one instance do all of the work.

I usually peak compress after my subtractive EQ/filtering and then apply the RMS compression after any boosting I do after that. RMS with super fast attack, auto release, high ratio, high threshold (set visually), high knee for me is prime final level control.

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