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Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:37 pm
by BoddAH
Schmidi wrote:Not a disrespect to you Beats Me, but Apple already has folks on a subscription plan, IE forced obsolescence via frequent OS updates forcing folks to upgrade hardware on regular intervals!

Except Apple supports OS updates on their devices for a veeery long time. Especially by consumer electronics and IT standards. I run OS X Yosemite (2014) on my 2008 MBP ffs.

I don’t want to sound like an Apple fanboy but I never understood this criticism. If anything, apple is the company out of the bunch that practices the least “planned obsolescence” whatever that means.

New android versions frequently can’t be installed on ONE year old flagship models. Compare that to my iPhone 4 (2010) running iOS 7 (2013).

Besides, nobody’s forcing you to upgrade. I have no plans to replace my iPhone 4 with iOS 7 despite iOS 8 already being out. It’s working just fine.

Maybe some people feel the urge to buy the latest gadget no matter what but that’s q whole other issue.

Out of any electronics brand, Apple products keep the highest resale value and most devices are being sold (both new and second-hand) for a long time. That’s the opposite of planned obsolescence.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:39 pm
by beats me
Apple is notorious for forcing new technology on people before its fully ready for primetime, but it’s not every year or every new hardware upgrade like haters would have you believe. People lost their shit when Apple changed the iPod/iPhone/iPad cable but the original cable had been around for a decade. Get a grip.

On to the OT....

Another way to look at it is just about everything tangible you can pay for in installments whether it’s a credit card you make payments on, a loan, or direct installment plans with the seller. And those things don’t come with payment plan perks. Toyota isn’t going to upgrade the engine in my car just because I’m still paying it off.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:43 pm
by BoddAH
beats me wrote:Apple is notorious for forcing new technology on people before its fully ready for primetime
Well if anything, that’s a point against Apple supposedly using planned obsolescence. Because even if it’s not intentional, that would make smart people AVOID upgrading to the newest product with useless cutting edge tech. :mrgreen:

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:58 pm
by beats me
BoddAH wrote:
beats me wrote:Apple is notorious for forcing new technology on people before its fully ready for primetime
Well if anything, that’s a point against Apple supposedly using planned obsolescence. Because even if it’s not intentional, that would make smart people AVOID upgrading to the newest product with useless cutting edge tech. :mrgreen:
If every 4 - 5 years on average to consider buying new hardware is a little too frequently for some people then, yeah, they shouldn’t go with Apple products. That doesn't mean the person is smarter and that the cutting edge technology is useless. Its just not a priority or of interest to them.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:09 pm
by Quez
....I still have my old G4... and this is getting too off topic.

I'm not interested in a flame war so I'll just stop here :)

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:41 pm
by eyeknow
re:dream wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:i hate the subscription model but i can see how it might smooth out the cashflow for a company...
I don't think Ableton has cash flow problems.
If they see a market to create more money, why wouldn't they?

As far as if they will, I'll leave that to the scholars of the forum :lol:

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:50 am
by eyeknow
As for sonar, the derptitude of the fanboi's is absolutely amazing! Those guys will go to their grave defending the great keepers of the cake.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:05 am
by Steve Glen
Things I would pay a subscription for:

:Social Media. That is, social media that works for me. (Like a Digital Personal Assistant that connects me to the world.)
:Internet/Phone/Water/Heat/Electricity
:Use of somebody else's gym.


Things I would pay to own. (Financing with a monthly payment plan still means I own it.)

:My Clothes
:My Food
:My Tools
:My own gym.

Things I would rent

:Pre-amps
:Hotel rooms
:1 hour of time in a yoga studio (instructor included)

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:20 am
by eyeknow
lolz

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:26 am
by rillzheng
mcdreamer wrote:I really hope this doesn't happen. Or at least, if it does there is still an option to buy outright as you can now. Subscription models offer no advantages to the customer, only disadvantages.
I can not agree with you bro...Subscription can bring smooth update,take fantastic features instantly.It is no sense waiting for point releases for musicaion?

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:47 am
by Tarekith
beats me wrote:
BoddAH wrote:
beats me wrote:Apple is notorious for forcing new technology on people before its fully ready for primetime
Well if anything, that’s a point against Apple supposedly using planned obsolescence. Because even if it’s not intentional, that would make smart people AVOID upgrading to the newest product with useless cutting edge tech. :mrgreen:
If every 4 - 5 years on average to consider buying new hardware is a little too frequently for some people then, yeah, they shouldn’t go with Apple products. That doesn't mean the person is smarter and that the cutting edge technology is useless. Its just not a priority or of interest to them.
Agreed 100%. Apple doesn't wait for people who don't like to upgrade, it just makes your life way more difficult. Luckily their products have good resale value if you buy and sell at the right times, so staying up to date can actually be cheaper than waiting 6-7 years.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:59 am
by kitekrazy
beats me wrote:If things start swaying this way across the board I think it’s another point for Apple and Logic. They don’t need the money for their software so they aren’t going to go subscription. If anything this might just lead people right to Logic, already one of the cheaper but high quality DAWs.
Not if you are a PC user. One of my most expensive DAWs next to Live Suite is Garage Band. You have to pay at least $400 for it and it came with a free iPad. (sarcasm)
I can run a lot of software on an older PC. I'm not sure that is true with Apple. I know some Mac die hards complain about the Apple monopoly.
Cakewalk is giving you can option to pay upfront or monthly.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:04 am
by kitekrazy
analog_rome wrote:My day job is mostly spent using Adobe Creative Cloud, and the consensus on the subscription model from my fellow video people is that it is a great deal for a business that depends on their products, but for an individual artist or hobbyist it is horrible.

Since the large majority of Adobe CC users are business/professional while the large majority of Ableton users are bedroom producers, I would think this doesn't seem like a likely move for Ableton.

Like others are pointing out this is all about piracy and Adobe cashflow. Regarding piracy I can appreciate the justification, but I think the cashflow reason stinks.

Music and video production people have shown they are ready and willing to jump over to a new product if the current one pisses them off enough. Software choices and portability are abundant these days.
Many people don't realize the anti-piracy measure here is affordability. Photoshop/Lightroom subscription is a great deal.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:18 am
by eyeknow
BoddAH wrote:
I don’t want to sound like an Apple fanboy but I never understood this criticism.
I can answer that. The problem becomes does vs hype. The superiority complex that so many apple users project. Although they make a fine product SOME of the time, they don't make a superior product ALL of the time like apple users (and let's face, it's most) try and convince you of.

It's not a bash on apple as much, it's a bash on over zealous users that think a PC can't cut it because they have been programmed by the machine. Then there is apple, who doesn't have the best customer policies on the planet. EDIT. I'll end that there, was starting to rant.

So, take it or leave it, that's the reason most people feel the need to lash out at apple.

Re: New Sonar gone monthly subscription. Might Ableton go same?

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:34 am
by Stromkraft
Quez wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:Your logic is flawed. Of course Apple wants to sell. But the reality I see are people keeping their old Macs even as they're getting new ones. Or if they are sold at a great secondhand value they constitute the low-end section of Macs (that Apple seldom caters to) and still typically runs the current OS X version.

That a 64bit only operating system won't run on 32-bit hardware is not "planned obsolescence". It's rather an effect of normal technical evolution.
hum well I did mention technological leaps.. :| "Of course when big technological changes happens, well, it happens (for exemple moving from PPC/IBM to Intel processors)"
Well, the fact that old machines "still typically runs the current OS X version" makes your arguments here quite weak.

Where I feel Apple is at fault is more in the iOS situation. But that is something Music Producers should learn to ignore in the computer choices.

What's really driving hardware sales are the seemingly unquenchable thirst for more CPU power and demanding more from our machines. Something you left out from the equation.