Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

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re:dream
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by re:dream » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:02 pm

Sean_Clarke wrote:
No need to?
er, to complete redundant sentences 8)
I own and use Live 9 studio/Max, Cubase 8 and now Bitwig. My point is that I am finding that Bitwig is actually replacing Cubase as the arrangement view is so powerful ( Arrangement and Session views at the same is also useful, but I am actually finding it very fast to make songs in a linear fashion that I used to build with clips). Things like bounce in place on hybrid tracks, polyphonic automation (note expression), Unified Modulation System (sending any modulation signal to any VST etc.), layered editing...for me, a good enough linear editor/DAW to replace Cubase (and I have heard the same from logic users. I dint currently plan to sell Live, but I am having a hard look at what I use Cubase for.....
That's very interesting. My experience with Cubase comes from years ago, when it was a bloated monster more useful for mastering recorded audio; making tracks with it was a nightmare!
FYI- Bitwig does seem to have very comprehensive clip automation/follow actions which can be triggered at any time whilst the clip is playing, but I don't use this much as I only use it as a DAW (writing/arranging), I have also seen people say on forums you may be able to script keyboard clip launch with the API, but this is all way over my head and needs!
Well, hopefully they sort out this problem with multiple copies of the same clip. If it's just a bug and not a design feature, that is.

Sean_Clarke
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Sean_Clarke » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:30 pm

re:dream wrote:
Sean_Clarke wrote:
No need to?
er, to complete redundant sentences 8)

Ahhh- I was worried some one had shot you ;-)
I own and use Live 9 studio/Max, Cubase 8 and now Bitwig. My point is that I am finding that Bitwig is actually replacing Cubase as the arrangement view is so powerful ( Arrangement and Session views at the same is also useful, but I am actually finding it very fast to make songs in a linear fashion that I used to build with clips). Things like bounce in place on hybrid tracks, polyphonic automation (note expression), Unified Modulation System (sending any modulation signal to any VST etc.), layered editing...for me, a good enough linear editor/DAW to replace Cubase (and I have heard the same from logic users. I dint currently plan to sell Live, but I am having a hard look at what I use Cubase for.....
That's very interesting. My experience with Cubase comes from years ago, when it was a bloated monster more useful for mastering recorded audio; making tracks with it was a nightmare!

It is becoming a bloated beast - I have been updating since PRO24 day on blind loyally (well they did invent VST!) and it was my main tool and guitar was my main writing tool, but now a days its more and more keyboard (or just production) and I just don't use the new stuff they keep adding in Cubase...Live covered 80% for me unless I was (as I occasionally do) recording a singer/songwriter in my little studio, then it is much better than Live....but perhaps BITWIG will cut this activity for me and I can pass the Monster on to someone with the time and need for all the features....
FYI- Bitwig does seem to have very comprehensive clip automation/follow actions which can be triggered at any time whilst the clip is playing, but I don't use this much as I only use it as a DAW (writing/arranging), I have also seen people say on forums you may be able to script keyboard clip launch with the API, but this is all way over my head and needs!
Well, hopefully they sort out this problem with multiple copies of the same clip. If it's just a bug and not a design feature, that is.
All I can say on this is the developers all talk often on KVR about what they are doing, why they are doing it and the direction they are taking...personally I think that's a good thing and a refreshing stance- other people may see it as promising features they have yet to deliver, but the 0.1 update was very good, and the 0.2 update looks good (OK, not mind blowing :-)) If they keep going like this, they will be hard for anyone with an interest in music making to ignore- at £160 + VAT they are not much more than a couplke of VST's (that's how I talked myself in to buying it ;-))
DAW: Bitwig, Live, Studio One via an X32 desk: Instruments: modular and analogue stuff, guitars, basses and drums.

TheDZA
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by TheDZA » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:17 pm

Nice new browser and folded group editing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=8 ... enAmiG2qfw

Sean_Clarke
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Sean_Clarke » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:37 pm

Looks like a nice implementation of grouping, particularly being able to edit within the group track.
Real time audition/hot swap is nice, not just pre-sets but samples within sampler/drum rack etc whilst the song is playing.
I am hoping the new present content updates will really show off what is possible, its still so new I don't think many people have got their heads around the modulation possibilities yet (I know I haven't!)
Full retina and 4K display as well ;-)

Hard to believe its only be 10 month since release and they have had two fairly significant updates.....(ehem, cough...Ableton...anything??)
DAW: Bitwig, Live, Studio One via an X32 desk: Instruments: modular and analogue stuff, guitars, basses and drums.

eyeknow
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by eyeknow » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:28 am

yeah, it's hard to tell if the abe's are hard at work or hardly working :lol:

I'm glad I bought bitwig, but I'd be even happier if I knew ableton was cooking up something special :)

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:52 am

eyeknow wrote: but I'd be even happier if I knew ableton was cooking up something special :)
This!

kitekrazy
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by kitekrazy » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:09 pm

eyeknow wrote:yeah, it's hard to tell if the abe's are hard at work or hardly working :lol:

I'm glad I bought bitwig, but I'd be even happier if I knew ableton was cooking up something special :)
More than they did with Live 8. Check out the beta releases and beta forum.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180996

Sean_Clarke
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Sean_Clarke » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:28 pm

I'm still hoping the lack of updates (just concentrating on bug fixes) is because there is a BIG 9.5 update coming :-)
DAW: Bitwig, Live, Studio One via an X32 desk: Instruments: modular and analogue stuff, guitars, basses and drums.

eyeknow
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by eyeknow » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:58 pm

kitekrazy wrote:
eyeknow wrote:yeah, it's hard to tell if the abe's are hard at work or hardly working :lol:

I'm glad I bought bitwig, but I'd be even happier if I knew ableton was cooking up something special :)
More than they did with Live 8. Check out the beta releases and beta forum.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180996

The thing that most software companies don't seem to understand is that the casual user (a good amount of us) need to be teased into more exciting improvements or boredom and frustration sets in. ESPECIALLY is you are having and issue that is actually preventing you from making music.

Also, many of us spend quite a bit of time over at the beta making suggestions I still feel it's going really slowly.

Angstrom
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Angstrom » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:22 am

eyeknow wrote:
The thing that most software companies don't seem to understand is that the casual user (a good amount of us) need to be teased into more exciting improvements or boredom and frustration sets in. ESPECIALLY is you are having and issue that is actually preventing you from making music.

Also, many of us spend quite a bit of time over at the beta making suggestions I still feel it's going really slowly.
I love excitement as much as the next guy, but what i really love is acknowlegement. If you report that you have a usability issue it would be great to get that acknowledged, if you don't get an acknowledgement that the issue is a real issue then you may just repeat yourself. As if you are shouting into a void.

>"Hey, I think this new feature X is really weird, it works strangely and is counter intuitive when doing A and B!"
--Silence.
> "Hey, two weeks later and i still think X is very weird, I've not changed my mind, it still really bugs me when doing A, B and C, it doesn't do what I need".
--Silence.
> "Just a reminder I think X is bad and people will not like it, in fact it has actually got worse when doing A, B and C. I need X to do A, B and C more than anything and it doesn't seem to address them at all!."
--we have heard you. Please don't repeat yourself.
>"great, so what do you guys think about the points I raised?"
-- silence
>" uh, guys you seem to be a month away from launch and X is as bad as ever, if I can remind you I think X is now bad for A, B and C, and additionally D. I think this needs to be resolved, I can't understand why you would let this go out this way."
-- I think you are burned out on beta testing, perhaps you need to stop.


In a hypothetical scenario like that would certainly undermine confidence in any beta type process. In a hypothetical scenario it would imply defensiveness about flaws rather than problem solving, inclusiveness, or valued assets.
Even if the commenter was totally wrong from the objective perspective of a 3rd party, in UX the very fact that this hypothetical user is making statements and is involved warants investigation, questions, probing. In terms of QA the defensiveness and dismissiveness about furthering such input makes the whole process seem predicated on unstable footings.

Hypothetically speaking. I would never waste my time on a project where my input was dismissed, even when wrong the input has value.
Last edited by Angstrom on Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

alpertt
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by alpertt » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:27 am

How is that "plug in sandboxing" works? Anybody experienced a VST crashed but everything else is ok?
For my experience %99 of crashes happen because of plug ins. So that Bitwig never crashes??

Second, Anybody use it with APC40 MKI? How does it work, as standart midi controller or same with Ableton?

eyeknow
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by eyeknow » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:07 am

Angstrom wrote:
eyeknow wrote:
The thing that most software companies don't seem to understand is that the casual user (a good amount of us) need to be teased into more exciting improvements or boredom and frustration sets in. ESPECIALLY is you are having and issue that is actually preventing you from making music.

Also, many of us spend quite a bit of time over at the beta making suggestions I still feel it's going really slowly.
I love excitement as much as the next guy, but what i really love is acknowlegement. If you report that you have a usability issue it would be great to get that acknowledged, if you don't get an acknowledgement that the issue is a real issue then you may just repeat yourself. As if you are shouting into a void.

>"Hey, I think this new feature X is really weird, it works strangely and is counter intuitive when doing A and B!"
--Silence.
> "Hey, two weeks later and i still think X is very weird, I've not changed my mind, it still really bugs me when doing A, B and C, it doesn't do what I need".
--Silence.
> "Just a reminder I think X is bad and people will not like it, in fact it has actually got worse when doing A, B and C. I need X to do A, B and C more than anything and it doesn't seem to address them at all!."
--we have heard you. Please don't repeat yourself.
>"great, so what do you guys think about the points I raised?"
-- silence
>" uh, guys you seem to be a month away from launch and X is as bad as ever, if I can remind you I think X is now bad for A, B and C, and additionally D. I think this needs to be resolved, I can't understand why you would let this go out this way."
-- I think you are burned out on beta testing, perhaps you need to stop.


In a hypothetical scenario like that would certainly undermine confidence in any beta type process. In a hypothetical scenario it would imply defensiveness about flaws rather than problem solving, inclusiveness, or valued assets.
Even if the commenter was totally wrong from the objective perspective of a 3rd party, in UX the very fact that this hypothetical user is making statements and is involved warants investigation, questions, probing. In terms of QA the defensiveness and dismissiveness about furthering such input makes the whole process seem predicated on unstable footings.

Hypothetically speaking. I would never waste my time on a project where my input was dismissed, even when wrong the input has value.
I believe we agree we went through that with the release/beta of 9. However, it's mostly turned out for the best here anyways and it's just time to move on. The abes asked for more input and that was quite a while back. The betas are so sparse that there is really nothing to go over there about.

darth_fader
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by darth_fader » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:12 am

alpertt wrote:How is that "plug in sandboxing" works? Anybody experienced a VST crashed but everything else is ok?
For my experience %99 of crashes happen because of plug ins. So that Bitwig never crashes??
That works fine but in practice I noticed it is more a nice-to-have feature. When you have a crappy plugin you need to get rid of it anyway.
alpertt wrote:Second, Anybody use it with APC40 MKI? How does it work, as standart midi controller or same with Ableton?
I wrote a script for it which covers all the standard features and a lot more (lots of features from the Push). See: http://mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html

tedlogan
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by tedlogan » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:11 pm

Angstrom wrote:...but what i really love is acknowlegement. If you report that you have a usability issue it would be great to get that acknowledged, if you don't get an acknowledgement that the issue is a real issue then you may just repeat yourself. As if you are shouting into a void.

Hypothetically speaking. I would never waste my time on a project where my input was dismissed, even when wrong the input has value.
My thoughts exactly. I've mainly stopped even going to the Beta site and am just getting on with sound design and music.

I must say the latter is far more enjoyable and fulfilling.

Sean_Clarke
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Sean_Clarke » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:46 pm

Yeh, Beta forum is a very quiet place now....can go days without a post-
I only wanted to know what the Abes planned to implement to assist with my purchasing desesions...in the end I just bought Bitwig anyway. Ironically a lot of the requests in the beta forum and the 'live 10' thread are (or will be in 1.2) already in BWS, I suspect the BWS guys are looking at what people want in Live and putting it in BWS!!
DAW: Bitwig, Live, Studio One via an X32 desk: Instruments: modular and analogue stuff, guitars, basses and drums.

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