Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Martin Gifford
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:48 am

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Martin Gifford » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:50 am

Angstrom wrote:Bad news bro, those symptoms are familiar from several friends:
EG: It hurts when things are disharmonious, you are a self proclaimed genius, you are having great epiphanies & insights into illusory nature of reality, you write and send huge impenetrable tracts to baffled/worried friends who cant understand them or you, you have feelings of alienation and superiority.

Early stage schizophrenia.

If you start having thoughts about secret societies out to get/ stop you. Hidden messages that only you can read. Anger at idiocy of others who cant see like you can so you are forced to act, etc, etc. Go to doctor before this. At that stage you start living on the streets and become a sky shouter.
I am not joking
Damn! You mean I've been deluded all along? And the masses are right, after all? Do you know a good psychiatrist who can help me back to normality?

FWIW, here's my philosophy in one paragraph (helps if you read it slowly, i.e. stop after every sentence to contemplate the implications):

You were born into a world of delusion. Everyone around you is deluded into thinking that happiness is essentially in objects or states. In reality, happiness is our nature, given decent circumstances. However, even if we realise this, we still need to end delusion in the world because our happiness requires a decent circumstances, not deluded circumstances where people delude and harm each other unnecessarily. People generally reject the idea of fixing the world because they believe either it is against the principles of nature, or it is too hard. Those beliefs are merely tenets derived from the deluded world. They are the deluded world expressing itself through your mind. In reality, submitting to those beliefs is what stops the world being liberated from delusion. Most people want a better world. If they just stay in touch with that desire, rather than saying "But it's unnatural," or "But it's too hard," positive change will happen.

Quick, call the ambulance!

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:21 pm

I'll bite...
Martin Gifford wrote: You were born into a world of delusion. Everyone around you is deluded into thinking that happiness is essentially in objects or states.
Word salad. Delusion presupposes that there is one truth, of which we are not aware of. That is not so in social systems (and barely so in physics).
In reality, happiness is our nature, given decent circumstances.
Wrong. If you want to get philosophical about it, then it's rather the opposite. Unhappiness is our nature. That is so because what makes us strive for things (and thus ultimately survive), is this emotional feed back system, constantly comparing the Is condition with the optimal one, which is always a moving target. So the natural state is always: It could be better...
This stops only when you die. So you could say after we're dead being happy is our nature :lol: (But of course it's not since there is no IS anymore to be anything)

The Buddhists found a semi credible cope out and that is: Stop thinking! So yeah.... :roll:
However, even if we realise this, we still need to end delusion in the world because our happiness requires a decent circumstances, not deluded circumstances where people delude and harm each other unnecessarily.
See my first comment. What you call delusion is just other people having different opinions from you. That might be because they have faulty information, but it may just as well be that they only draw different conclusions from the same information you have.
People generally reject the idea of fixing the world because they believe either it is against the principles of nature, or it is too hard. Those beliefs are merely tenets derived from the deluded world. They are the deluded world expressing itself through your mind. In reality, submitting to those beliefs is what stops the world being liberated from delusion. Most people want a better world. If they just stay in touch with that desire, rather than saying "But it's unnatural," or "But it's too hard," positive change will happen.
Again word salad.
If your philosophy book was written with the same lack of intellectual rigor, I understand why it was rejected by the people you gave it to.

There is a very good reason why real students of philosophy usually start with extensive courses in Logic.
If you are really that convinced that you have unique insights to share, you should take good care about testing your thoughts against a rigorous shake down of them. A study of Logic will lend you the necessary tools for doing that.
Philosophy may not be hard science like physics, but it's neither: Anything goes.

c33
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:18 pm

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by c33 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:31 pm

You can't have happiness without unhappiness. All the emotions we have the capacity to feel are inextricably linked and part of our nature. It's how we choose to deal with these temporary states of being that can make all the difference.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Mostly you can't have happiness if you expect that you deserve it all the time, or if you need the world to change to achieve it.
The problem is that the goal is a sense of well being, and a leveling of emotional attachments, not happiness. We are all such extremists.

Martin Gifford
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:48 am

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Martin Gifford » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:24 pm

TomViolenz, thanks for the strident reply!
TomViolenz wrote:Delusion presupposes that there is one truth, of which we are not aware of. That is not so in social systems (and barely so in physics).
There is only one reality - by definition. Regardless, there are a few basic truths that we limited human beings can comprehend. You mention survival as the supposedly overarching one. But after we are surviving well, we seek happiness in its various forms. Just look at your motivation. As you say you seek better circumstances. But it's not for survival since you already have that. It is for happiness. Survival alone is too basic for intelligent human beings, unless survival is threatened as in poor countries.
Unhappiness is our nature. That is so because what makes us strive for things (and thus ultimately survive), is this emotional feed back system, constantly comparing the Is condition with the optimal one, which is always a moving target. So the natural state is always: It could be better...
If you look closer in your immediate experience, you will see that your seeking is a habit premised on the hope of improved circumstances for increased happiness, not for survival unless you are one of those nuts locked in an apartment full of guns. I agree that that it is a hangover from the struggle for survival. We see that safer circumstances feel better and mistakenly assume that further improvement is the way to happiness, and we see everyone else doing the same. Bottom line is that you've got to add happiness as the next step after your survival thesis, then check what really works for realising happiness.
What you call delusion is just other people having different opinions from you. That might be because they have faulty information, but it may just as well be that they only draw different conclusions from the same information you have.
No. They have never even looked. They just mechanically react and follow along with society. They see that improved survival circumstances feel better, so they continue in that way out of habit and because they see others doing likewise. That behaviour is not due to supposedly inevitable instinct. Human beings can be reflective and innovative.
The Buddhists found a semi credible cope out and that is: Stop thinking! So yeah.... :roll:
We don't need to stop thinking. We need to watch how the efforts to seek happiness in objects and states actually cause unhappiness. Then those efforts naturally end due to repeatedly seeing the immediate pain and ultimate futility. Then the energy that was leaked into that quest abides at its source and we feel inexpressible wellbeing. I think Buddha was closer to the mark when he critiqued objectification and attachment.
If your philosophy book was written with the same lack of intellectual rigor, I understand why it was rejected by the people you gave it to. There is a very good reason why real students of philosophy usually start with extensive courses in Logic. If you are really that convinced that you have unique insights to share, you should take good care about testing your thoughts against a rigorous shake down of them. A study of Logic will lend you the necessary tools for doing that. Philosophy may not be hard science like physics, but it's neither: Anything goes.
I majored in philosophy. Every subchapter of the book has a question and answer section where the questioner attacks my theories in the same way that you have - predictable attacks that are expressions of society's tenets like the Matrix (no offense). Analytic philosophy is stuck in "critical thinking" rather than opening up to creative thinking. As soon as you write even one paragraph, they jump in with a million attacks, so they close off new ideas before they have even been fully articulated. But if you say "Darwin says...", they automatically lap it up. They imagine that they are heroic doubters of received wisdom because they doubt one small area knowledge, but ultimately they are drowning in society's assumptions. To really doubt received wisdom, you have to start by rejecting it all and looking at the immediacy of your own experience. Almost nobody does that. It usually requires a crisis, but it can also happen if there's a good mix of sensitivity, intelligence, and courage.

BTW, would you mind if I posted your comment on my blog? I can delete your name if you prefer.

Martin Gifford
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Martin Gifford » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:50 pm

Sorry for this getting off the Bitwig topic, but it is potentially on the “mind-blowing” topic ;)

c33 wrote:
You can't have happiness without unhappiness.
Haven’t we all had sufficient unhappiness? Does anyone have real happiness?
All the emotions we have the capacity to feel are inextricably linked and part of our nature. It's how we choose to deal with these temporary states of being that can make all the difference.
In reality, we seek improved happiness. Even strategies for dealing with temporary states is an effort to improve happiness (or reduce unhappiness). There’s no getting away from that fact. It is true that unpleasant feelings are inevitable. But they are currently, and were previously, excessive. We don’t realise the underlying stress of our lives because we have gotten used to it. I reckon in a hundred years from now, people will wonder at how much unhappiness we tolerated just as we wonder at people suffering in the middle ages.


Machinesworking wrote:
Mostly you can't have happiness if you expect that you deserve it all the time, or if you need the world to change to achieve it.
We don’t deserve or not deserve happiness. It just so happens that happiness is our nature if we are surviving well and free of illusion.

As for changing the world, you can’t have sufficient happiness without the world changing. The world is a swamp, at the moment. If you don’t see that, or don't see how that must impact excessively on your happiness, then you have just gotten used to it - in a bad way.
The problem is that the goal is a sense of well being, and a leveling of emotional attachments, not happiness. We are all such extremists.
If you reduce your attachments because you see they cause unhappiness rather than happiness, then you will get a much greater sense of wellbeing - the energy that was leaked into illusion abides at its source and that feels good. Nevertheless, you need to be sensitive to feel happiness, and if you are sensitive, that means you will feel the unhappiness of others, hence the need for changing the world, which is an extremely easy thing to do if people just nurture their desire for a better world.

People generally don’t realise how ludicrously screwed up things are because its all we know. Aliens from advanced civilisations, or people from this planet’s future, will wonder at our tolerance because they have the objectivity supplied by an alternative experience.

BTW, guys, can I include your comments on my blog? Surprisingly, I'm getting better responses here than I get from new agers and philosophers and ordinary people. Maybe our artist nature makes us more responsive?

stringtapper
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by stringtapper » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:33 pm

Here's my philosophy:

Philosophies such as yours actually breed unhappiness in those that believe them.

Now back to music.
Unsound Designer

Steve Glen
Posts: 362
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Location: Edmonton Alberta

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Steve Glen » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:36 pm

I went and updated the audio content/packages as suggested. Thanks for the heads up! there is a ton of new content. I noticed that there was few presets and few straight audio. Seems mostly like sampled instruments, which is cool.

Bitwig Suite!

beatz01
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by beatz01 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:43 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Mostly you can't have happiness if you expect that you deserve it all the time, or if you need the world to change to achieve it.
The problem is that the goal is a sense of well being, and a leveling of emotional attachments, not happiness. We are all such extremists.
This.

All you have to understand is that 1) happiness comes from within yourself (same place where selfesteem is located) and shouldn't mainly rely on other people or possession of things, 2) the most important things in life are the basic things (food, health, shelter etc) and first and foremost that 3) the greatest gift in life is the gift of life itself.

Image in you were'nt born at all and you would still fly around in space as an atom or whatever being angry that you still haven't been given the chance to experience what that thing called "life" is that they enjoy on planet earth.

In other words, life itself is not to be taken for granted, quite the opposite: To be able to enjoy the fact that you have been given the opportunity to experience life is in itself the purpose or meaning of life.

People should be thankful to be alive at all.

Yet another way to say it: If you have 2 legs, 2 arms, are healthy, have enough food and shelter, that's everything you really need with maybe the addition of love.Everything else is a welcomed bonus (such as financial success, success in making music etc), but not essential for anyones happiness - at least it shouldn't.

People take life for granted much too easily.

TomViolenz
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:39 pm

beatz01 wrote: People should be thankful to be alive at all.
Why?! It's not that great :x

And there is no purpose. We arrive here, did nothing for that. Then we spend a few decades like little drones focused on survival and TV trivia. And then one day we're gone with almost everyone of us forgotten within at most a generation.

Into this house we're born
Into this world we're thrown
Like a dog without a bone
an actor out of loan....


That's all there is.


And thankful to whom?!

The programmers of Martins Matrix? Allah? The Jebus baby? Mom and Dad?!

OBAMA?! 8O :lol:

Angstrom
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Angstrom » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:49 am

Interesting that Create Digital Music gave their "best in show" to
CDM BEST OF SHOW: MIDI Polyphonic Expression – Bitwig, ROLI, Roger Linn, et al.
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2015/04/b ... more-37481
I eventually took the trophy over to Bitwig for the simple reason that there, you could see the technology in action even outside something like the ROLI booth. A Roger Linn Linnstrument was connected to a Bitwig Studio beta, where it was able to easily control a built-in instrument. Bitwig can record and edit the controller data seamlessly.
Interesting because Ableton actually have their own polyphonic expression device, of course it's Push, but somehow they missed this boat entirely. The app can't do any of this stuff so their own polypressure controller is limited.
A weird world.

Stromkraft
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:43 am

Martin Gifford wrote: There is only one reality - by definition.
For practical purposes that superfluous and also not fully proven (we don't know yet what reality really is). We all have a mind model we call reality and these do all differ somewhat. This is also true in science, even if the congruency is stronger within scientific disciplines regarding general ideas.

Regarding Bitwig I'm sure all kinds of models flourish within this community whether it's so much better than Live to warrant getting into that too (or even instead). So far it seems interesting for the future for my reality, but not for the current.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:31 am

Martin Gifford wrote:TomViolenz, thanks for the strident reply!
TomViolenz wrote:Delusion presupposes that there is one truth, of which we are not aware of. That is not so in social systems (and barely so in physics).
There is only one reality - by definition.
Not so outside of the hard science context (and even there it's not totally clear)
In the social context you address here, there are about 6 Billion realities atm.

You are gay? In NY City you are probably the hot shit everything revolves around.
In Teheran?! You are the epitome of ungodly evil.

So same guy + totally different circumstances = totally different reality.
Regardless, there are a few basic truths that we limited human beings can comprehend. You mention survival as the supposedly overarching one. But after we are surviving well, we seek happiness in its various forms. Just look at your motivation. As you say you seek better circumstances. But it's not for survival since you already have that. It is for happiness. Survival alone is too basic for intelligent human beings, unless survival is threatened as in poor countries.
But we have the same set of emotional responses that we evolved with. In fact there were likely no major changes in who we are as a species since before we invented agriculture and thus civilization. So that constantly being unsatisfied (unhappy is a bad term for this in that context) is a relic from how we became who we are. It's what made us survive and it is so ingrained that it will probably be with us forever.

InLight-Tone
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by InLight-Tone » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:27 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
beatz01 wrote: People should be thankful to be alive at all.
Why?! It's not that great :x
-----------------
The unhappiness you feel is OUR own fault. Physical LIFE is a freaking miracle. Bliss is OUR birthright, but it's a group decision of 7,000,000,000+ and counting away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xZnq0pm_5c

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig Studio 1.2 'mind-blowing free update'

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:27 pm

InLight-Tone wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
beatz01 wrote: People should be thankful to be alive at all.
Why?! It's not that great :x
-----------------
The unhappiness you feel is OUR fault.
Well thanks for that then :x

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