Moderation of this forum

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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re:dream
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Moderation of this forum

Post by re:dream » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:17 pm

There's been a couple of discussions around about the problem of spammers and forum abuse; I think it would be good to start a thread on finding some pro-active solutions.

I am posting this in the Music production forum because it is NOT only a Lounge issue. It is impacting the quality and experience of the forum as a whole.

There have been a number of proposals in response to the automated forum bombing that's been happening. Some of them relate to automated forum regulation (e.g. restricting simultaneous posts, making a post-every-15 minutes rule etc.

I think the solution is simple: make sure the forum is properly moderated. By people.

Clearly if you can stop forum bombing with some automated rules that would be a good thing. But it is not enough to put up bots / rules to fight bots, because the problem isn't bots - it is one or two assholes who derive puerile satisfaction from fucking up this forum. If they are blocked in that way, they will find another way to cause aggravation. We need proper, engaged moderators. It's like a garden. If it's overrun by weeds, you don't abandon the garden; you don't use crop sprayers; you spend a bit of time weeding and the whole problem is managed.

The problem is that Ableton don't seem to want to devote much time and energy to managing the forum.

At one level this is understandable, since it does not make them any money, and it's a hell of a boring job to do.

But the forum adds a lot of value. It's a key part of the ableton 'community' - and remember that when Behles did that Apple style launch a couple of years ago they made much of this community. I don't think that is just hype, I think they do value it, and this forum is part of it.

I'd suggest at least the following.

(1) Abes needs to get a couple of interns to mod the forum properly and tell us who they are
At the moment we don't know who is modding the forum. It's not [efl]. And it's not Ableton_David, bless his cotton socks. They should tell us who it is, so we can alert them to problems.

(2) They should add some standard phpBB features - like

the ability to delete posts
the ability to report posts

(3) They should also consider relying on some assistant or volunteer mods. I am sure there are a couple of folks round here who are well enough trusted by the regulars to be given some mod privileges.

What do you think?

Richie Witch
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by Richie Witch » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:52 pm

Excellent suggestions. I'd volunteer some time to helping out, since I'm usually here several times a day.
Win10/Intel i7 rig | Live 10 | DSI, Yamaha, Korg, and Novation synths, and 12U of Eurorack | various outboard gear | Dune 2, Circle2, Enzyme, Kontakt |

Angstrom
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:58 pm

I think that when they set up "Answers" they saw it as a replacement for this forum. But they missed the crucial detail. I bought Live because I used to see the developers on here, back when Robert was more involved he'd drop by and express strong opinions, the other guys would post at 3am while they were working on some tricky bug and explain in nearly understandable ways why we couldn't have X feature until Y was done.
The outcome would be a humanising and informative chat which reaffimed confidence in the team, meaning it was worth investing MY time and money in their platform.

That's never going to happen with Answers. It's not humanising, it's the opposite.

These days Christian Kleine still posts but mainly Max stuff. Robert does the same, he'll post if he's made a new device. Amo never posts, Stefan neither. Gerhard is in his fortress of solitude making affiliation deals. Bernd, in a monastery somewhere.

This is the abandoned garden. For them to devote a thought to it would be to admit they made a mistake by abandoning their community.

sonik777
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by sonik777 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:10 pm

Make it one thread post per half hour, or even hour. I mean it's not like anybody really needs to post more thread topics than that.

I.P. ban the spammers.

Get a few regular mods.


Many forums have volunteer mods that come from the regular posters. People who are trusted, and frequent the boards. Get a few different people to cover the clock.


All in all it's really a pretty simple problem to solve.


p.s.

Fix PDC

;)

stringtapper
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by stringtapper » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:15 pm

Yeah, when they removed the link to the forum from their site it was clear that they really consider it dead weight, more trouble than it's worth. And I agree with them.

The only reason I still hang out here after all these years is because of the dwindling cast of characters from the first season who still hang around, that and a mean internet addiction.

Let it grow over. At least in The Lounge we can still find or share the occasional interesting story or new tech gizmo.

Until they stop pruning the weeds and all that is left is pages of Volvos and she-males.

:x
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re:dream
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by re:dream » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:35 pm

I disagree to some extent. I think it would be a pity to lose the forum. I learn something new about music or Live every day, or every week at least. I have plenty of places to to talk shit on, but I don't have a lot of places where I can learn cool stuff about using Live.

The forum is not the lounge!

njh
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by njh » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:50 pm

Is there a feature in phpbb where they could stop duplicate post?
not allowing duplicate post would be a lot less annoying than limiting post once every 15 minutes.

re:dream
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by re:dream » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:53 pm


Muze
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by Muze » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:57 pm

njh wrote:Is there a feature in phpbb where they could stop duplicate post?
not allowing duplicate post would be a lot less annoying than limiting post once every 15 minutes.
Yes, I suggested this in the other thread, KvR does it.

njh
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by njh » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:21 pm

so since we know that these forums are not read on a regular basis should we all contact the mod individually and suggest that they disable duplicate postings?

@re:dream Im glad you made this thread so we can all discuss solutions. I hope I didn't come off as trying to knock your suggestion.

stringtapper
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by stringtapper » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:07 pm

njh wrote:Is there a feature in phpbb where they could stop duplicate post?
not allowing duplicate post would be a lot less annoying than limiting post once every 15 minutes.
What about people only being able to open one account?

What do you think about that nathannn?

:mrgreen:

But seriously I think the best solution is linking the forum account to the Live license(s).

Not a customer? No login. Done.

You are a customer and you spam the forum? Banned and you don't get a second chance unless you want to buy another license.

You're rich and can afford unlimited licenses in order to get unlimited logins and spam the forum? Sounds like a pretty good marketing strategy for Ableton. :lol:
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njh
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by njh » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:32 pm

If ableton were to limit the forums to only registered users that is up to them. The best solution I can see to stop massive spamming now is to not enable users to post duplicate posting. There is never a need to post the same thing more than once.

For the last year I have barely been on this forum (check both accounts.. I do very little posting). I do have two accounts only because I lost the password to this one back in 2006.

Stromkraft
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:09 pm

Currently I think at least registered users can report to support about spam and other abuse. This saddens me as I think they shouldn't have to deal with such things. Of course, I don't know if they give such missions to an outside organization already.

While an appointed group of helping hands could work out, another similar idea could be to let an outside company solve the problem at a cost and/or tie the forum accounts to a smaller cost, say $10 paid at signup, that would be forfeit if the account was clearly involved in breaking forum rules more than what could be deemed acceptable.

Banning IP addresses is a bad idea. Making people pay most likely works. Some will not like it, but Ableton need to consider the whole community.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Tarekith
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:27 pm

Didn't propellorheads just kill off their forum?

I volunteered awhile ago to help mod, but the last thing I want to do is delete a million posts all the time.

I miss the days when the Ableton guys would chime in more here, I really like devs who interact with the customers. Doesn't take that much time and does loads for good will.

Stromkraft
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Re: Moderation of this forum

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:43 pm

Tarekith wrote:
I miss the days when the Ableton guys would chime in more here, I really like devs who interact with the customers. Doesn't take that much time and does loads for good will.
I guess it's a good thing for developers to be able to get feedback from customers. But it seems to me they are getting that in their support and beta program now. Of course what could be needed then is feedback from people who are not current customers, which potentially could become also useful.
Make some music!

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