no, I'm saying he doesn't know any and made them upmrdelurk wrote:So to form an educated opinion about something one should not go see it? My interest is learning things, not being "right".TomViolenz wrote:I'm pretty sure he's talking out his a**mrdelurk wrote:Which of those places is the best? I might want to visit that too (besides this official hangout).
Moderation of this forum
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Re: Moderation of this forum
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Re: Moderation of this forum
Other forums exist. How populated they are I don't know, but this place is a lot less busy since the forum color change and the removal of the link on their site.
Linking accounts to licenses is probably the cheapest answer for the Abes.
Linking accounts to licenses is probably the cheapest answer for the Abes.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
I have never found a forum for crackers of Live
I didn't look either though, but I have been around the block in my time
I didn't look either though, but I have been around the block in my time
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Re: Moderation of this forum
I think you have to look actually. Many file sharing communities have forums loosely or fully connected to them. Many crackers also hide in plain sight on "normal" music sites and can only be spotted on the type of issues they have questions about and their responses to natural suggestions. Like "—upgrade to version x.1.8 tat fixes this issue!" and you get "I want to stay on version x.0.2 because…"(no specific reason given at the same time as there are no cracks for x.1.8).TomViolenz wrote:I have never found a forum for crackers of Live :lol:
I didn't look either though, but I have been around the block in my time ;-)
I see no reasons why non holders must have full citizenship here. Of course, that detail is not my call, but Ableton's as long as they run this community. So it's merely my opinion.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
So what? More messages doesn't equal quality. The value is in the actual content and not in the noise. Signal to noise ratio matters. If noise increases too much members with strong quality signals will leave. Better to use noise reduction techniques.stringtapper wrote:this place is a lot less busy since the forum color change and the removal of the link on their site..
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Re: Moderation of this forum
What is the value of this forum to Ableton?
Well, for one thing, it is a source of support to other users.
I would assume that this means a fair number of issues get resolved without people bothering Ableton Support or the helpline. So there's real value for Ableton right there.
Another is the creation of a (sometimes cantankerous, often quite fun) community of Live users who share skills, develop ideas, write new scripts, share M4L devices and do hundred things that add value to Live.
So I would be surprised if they wanted to can it. I think they just want to keep it at arm's length and not want to get to involved.
Will they make it for licences users only? Chapelier Fou's point is valid: people using the demo version should also be able to get help, and they don't have licences. And that accounts for a large proportion of the informal support that gets given here: people who don't RTFM, and who would probably either (1) not buy Live if they have a demo (2) bother the folks in Berlin with an inane enquiry. So if they made it for licences users only, the forum would lose some of its value.
I tend to think that their assessment is that there is nothing wrong with the forum: they are not going to can it, but they are not going to fix it either.
If that is so, then we better get used to the Sad One sending us love letters every few weeks or so. It seems to come in spasms; it will probably get better again when they get back on their meds.
Today, the spammer got deleted within three or four hours of Abes opening their office in Berlin. That seems to be about the response rate we can expect. I don't think it is unreasonable
Well, for one thing, it is a source of support to other users.
I would assume that this means a fair number of issues get resolved without people bothering Ableton Support or the helpline. So there's real value for Ableton right there.
Another is the creation of a (sometimes cantankerous, often quite fun) community of Live users who share skills, develop ideas, write new scripts, share M4L devices and do hundred things that add value to Live.
So I would be surprised if they wanted to can it. I think they just want to keep it at arm's length and not want to get to involved.
Will they make it for licences users only? Chapelier Fou's point is valid: people using the demo version should also be able to get help, and they don't have licences. And that accounts for a large proportion of the informal support that gets given here: people who don't RTFM, and who would probably either (1) not buy Live if they have a demo (2) bother the folks in Berlin with an inane enquiry. So if they made it for licences users only, the forum would lose some of its value.
I tend to think that their assessment is that there is nothing wrong with the forum: they are not going to can it, but they are not going to fix it either.
If that is so, then we better get used to the Sad One sending us love letters every few weeks or so. It seems to come in spasms; it will probably get better again when they get back on their meds.
Today, the spammer got deleted within three or four hours of Abes opening their office in Berlin. That seems to be about the response rate we can expect. I don't think it is unreasonable
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Re: Moderation of this forum
Have you suddenly gone retarded?TomViolenz wrote:I have never found a forum for crackers of Live
I didn't look either though, but I have been around the block in my time
Other forums dedicated to Ableton Live is what was meant.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
How about you quote my entire message, take the time to understand why I wrote what I wrote, and then hopefully come to the (correct) conclusion that my statement was not qualitative in any sense (i.e. I wasn't saying that the amount of population was a good or a bad thing, just that the population is lower)?Stromkraft wrote:So what? More messages doesn't equal quality. The value is in the actual content and not in the noise. Signal to noise ratio matters. If noise increases too much members with strong quality signals will leave. Better to use noise reduction techniques.stringtapper wrote:this place is a lot less busy since the forum color change and the removal of the link on their site..
Hmm? How about you try that?
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Re: Moderation of this forum
Subforum "Demo and other new users". "You who are new user of Ableton Live or is just testing the free demo can get help from the Ableton Community in this forum".re:dream wrote:
Will they make it for licences users only? Chapelier Fou's point is valid: people using the demo version should also be able to get help, and they don't have licences.
A targeted new user sub forum would serve these users better than the hot air of Music Audio Production as it is now. Moderators could be even more strict enforcing forum rules there too, to make sure newcomers get the best impression possible.
Which incidentally is one major reason to decide get out the bad eggs from these forums once and for all.
Also, in a newbie sub forum I do think Ableton should assign at least one employee to help assist users into experiencing the merits of Live as quickly and fully as possible within the limitations of forum support. Obviously the community would do their part too.
"New users" should not be seen as "bothering" Ableton but as an opportunity to welcome them as users and customers. Other companies work like this.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
stringtapper wrote:my statement was not qualitative in any sense |
yes, in that context it was. Maybe it was not how you meant. But unless the amount of messages is relevant at all, why even mention it?
I still don't understand your point. Please elaborate then what you meant and why this is even relevant. I should say I don't think the forums are stale at all.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
That seems really sensible.Stromkraft wrote: Subforum "Demo and other new users". "You who are new user of Ableton Live or is just testing the free demo can get help from the Ableton Community in this forum".
A targeted new user sub forum would serve these users better than the hot air of Music Audio Production as it is now. Moderators could be even more strict enforcing forum rules there too, to make sure newcomers get the best impression possible.
Which incidentally is one major reason to decide get out the bad eggs from these forums once and for all.
Also, in a newbie sub forum I do think Ableton should assign at least one employee to help assist users into experiencing the merits of Live as quickly and fully as possible within the limitations of forum support. Obviously the community would do their part too.
Which companies? I think most software and IT companies make sure their tech support is not swamped by people who don't read the manual and don't look at the bundled tutorials, which accounts for a fair amount of the newbie queries on this site."New users" should not be seen as "bothering" Ableton but as an opportunity to welcome them as users and customers. Other companies work like this.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
easy, easy my friendstringtapper wrote:Have you suddenly gone retarded?TomViolenz wrote:I have never found a forum for crackers of Live
I didn't look either though, but I have been around the block in my time
Other forums dedicated to Ableton Live is what was meant.
Other forums dedicated to Ableton Live for unlicenced users is what was meant.
Go read the thread again
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Re: Moderation of this forum
That's because you weren't here in the mid to late 00's when the place was bustling and people like Robert Henke himself would chime in on discussions. There are still some knowledgable people here but there were a lot of them here before.Stromkraft wrote:stringtapper wrote:my statement was not qualitative in any sense |
yes, in that context it was. Maybe it was not how you meant. But unless the amount of messages is relevant at all, why even mention it?
I still don't understand your point. Please elaborate then what you meant and why this is even relevant. I should say I don't think the forums are stale at all.
When I say "population" I'm literally referring to how many people are active. I've frequented a couple of forums over the years that eventually became ghost towns and the few times I've gone back I've seen unanswered questions all over the place. That was the point about bringing it up in the context of non-official Ableton Live forums. Places like 'abletonlivedj.com' if it even still exists, I haven't heard about it for years. Could be gone, could be a ghost town. This place isn't exactly a ghost town but it's definitely not what it once was.
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Re: Moderation of this forum
It's well on it's way to ghost town, and I'm afraid that, if Ableton becomes more "reasonable", as some of you see it, it will turn ino a graveyard.
I'm somewhat wondering if forums in general are on their way out. None of the communities I frequent are as vibrant as they used to be.
I'm somewhat wondering if forums in general are on their way out. None of the communities I frequent are as vibrant as they used to be.
Re: Moderation of this forum
This criteria would also snag users who bought the legit license, but didn't care to replace the pirate version for various reasons, for example.Stromkraft wrote:Many crackers also hide in plain sight on "normal" music sites and can only be spotted on the type of issues they have questions about and their responses to natural suggestions. Like "—upgrade to version x.1.8 tat fixes this issue!" and you get "I want to stay on version x.0.2 because…"(no specific reason given at the same time as there are no cracks for x.1..