I have Ableton Suite but now I heard iZotope Ozone/Alloy...

[5argon]

So I have purchased Suite which came with many audio effects. But then iZotope's plugins are very popular. When I try out the trial I see many if not all function can be build by using Ableton's audio effects.

I can totally feel that anything "build in" will immediately felt inferior to plugins from other company... but, these plugins from Ableton I also 'bought' by buying suite version.

So I wanted to ask Suite and iZotope owner what you felt inconvenient or cannot do with pure Ableton approach?

I mean, Ableton has EQ Eight, Multiband Compressor and for iZotope's exciter Ableton also have many analog modeling plugins like Tube Saturator etc. for that.

[beats me]

Probably the main difference is Ozone tries to make mastering simple with things like presets for the whole mastering chain that you can adjust from there if you want to. Using Live’s built-in devices you are going to have to know what you are doing…which some might consider inconvenient.

[login]

The included stuff with Live is good enough and you can learn a lot using it. Upgrade to third party plug ins when you really feel its holding you back.

The Glue is a very good compressor, EQ8 sounds quite good, Multiband dynamics is also very nice.

[timday]

The included stuff with Live is good enough and you can learn a lot using it. Upgrade to third party plug ins when you really feel its holding you back.

The Glue is a very good compressor, EQ8 sounds quite good, Multiband dynamics is also very nice.

This. You can go crazy buying plugins. Izotope plugins are good, and Waves plugins, and Sonnox plugins, and McDSP....and they'll all have their proponents telling you they're better than the other plugins, and you know what, they're really good (and really expensive). Then someone else will tell you that you really need a Thermionic Culture analogue valve mastering compressor and you can't really tell properly anyway unless you spend loads on monitors and you have no chance of producing properly unless you spend tens of thousands of pounds.

All that stuff is lovely, but you won't get the best results out of them unless you understand a bit about production, and if you do know about production you can also get really good results out of the Ableton stuff. Best save your cash until you know what you really need.

[mholloway]

Ableton's native plugins are excellent, and you're wrong to just assume they couldn't be as good as alloy. There is nothing special about Alloy, or even Ozone for that matter (though obviously it's designed for a different realm than mixing).

You start down the "maybe that thing over there is better..." path and you will never, ever, be satisfied. Already your judgement is impaired by fantasy-thinking, e.g. that assumption that Ableton's native effects won't sound as good as something like Alloy. And based on what? Something you read on the internet? Reviews? I'd say: run like hell from this line of thought right now. Trust your ears, work with what you've got, and make the most of it. Live's EQ and comps are fantastic, but don't take my word for it, or anybody's. Get to work!

-M

[nightscope]

In some respects Live's plugins are way ahead of any 3rd party offerings. The whole integrated GUI system takes away so much of the plugin window opening and closing nonsense that plagues just about every DAW on the planet. Plus they are all link up real nice with many great controllers without any remapping at all.

Live's EQ and comps are fantastic,

Well, I think so too. EQ8's GUI is unmatched, what it "sounds" like is up to the operator.

[beats me]

Is there any DAW forum where users answer this type question with “The built-in effects are SHIT! Go third party if you value your music!”


Actually, kind of a serious question.

[outsidesys]

Alloy has a multiband transient shaper, which is actually pretty good. Live doesn't have one, which is a shame.

[mholloway]

Is there any DAW forum where users answer this type question with “The built-in effects are SHIT! Go third party if you value your music!”


Actually, kind of a serious question.

Good question, but there must be, otherwise companies like Waves, FabFilter, Sonalksis, Native Instruments and the billion others like them would never be able to keep selling and releasing new EQ's and Compressors every year.

It's pretty insane how many "classically modeled" compressors are out there in the 3rd part plugin market, to pick just one type of device. EQs are just as bad, really. Waves alone sells a few dozen varieties of each. How many comps does a person need?!

-M

[Willyum]

Is there any DAW forum where users answer this type question with “The built-in effects are SHIT! Go third party if you value your music!”


Actually, kind of a serious question.

I would actually like to see someone who really KNOWS what they are doing, do a FX shoot-out too! I know My ears are not perfect but I have seen tons of vids where experienced engineers seem to get the same results using Lives native units as others get with third party stuff.

And I am almost positive there was a video on youtube with someone showing how to build a multi-band transient shaper using just Live native devices... But I can't find it now.

[timday]

Alloy has a multiband transient shaper, which is actually pretty good. Live doesn't have one, which is a shame.

Well there's a free M4L transient designer here http://sonicbloom.net/en/free-max-for-l ... -designer/ and you can always make a multiband version using a rack.

It's one of the things I like about Ableton - if it doesn't exist someone's probably built it or something like it in M4L, and if it doesn't quite fit your needs you can kind of make it happen usually by messing around with racks.

[beats me]

Is there any DAW forum where users answer this type question with “The built-in effects are SHIT! Go third party if you value your music!”


Actually, kind of a serious question.

I would actually like to see someone who really KNOWS what they are doing, do a FX shoot-out too! I know My ears are not perfect but I have seen tons of vids where experienced engineers seem to get the same results using Lives native units as others get with third party stuff.

And I am almost positive there was a video on youtube with someone showing how to build a multi-band transient shaper using just Live native devices... But I can't find it now.

I’ve watched countless videos on applying subtle effects like compression and reverb or comparing different plugs of the same type and when they do the on/off comparison and ask “hear the difference?” most of the time I don’t.

I’m sure all the major DAWs have great effects that their fanboys will defend to the death, although Live is probably the best at building your own contraptions if that’s your forte.

There’s also those who very much want to keep things in a single box and will do all necessary research and practice to get the best out of what is in that box. With third party options you would hope that they add some unique and expanded features because they are focusing on a single, or sometimes multiple, function(s) and is far less involved or multifaceted than developing a whole DAW.

[login]

Live aprach is kind of "modular" the effcts are very focused on single tasks, you you build a channel strip or master chain with them.

[antarktika]

So I have purchased Suite which came with many audio effects. But then Slate's plugins are very popular. When I try out the trial I see many if not all function can be build by using Ableton's audio effects.

So I have purchased some Slate mastering plugins. But then Sonnox' plugins are very popular. When I try out the trial I see many if not all function can be build by using Slate's audio effects.

So I have purchased Sonnox's mastering plugins. But then Waves' plugins are very popular. When I try out the trial I see many if not all function can be build by using Sonnox's audio effects.

see where I'm going with this?

[Stromkraft]

I mean, Ableton has EQ Eight, Multiband Compressor and for iZotope's exciter Ableton also have many analog modeling plugins like Tube Saturator etc. for that.

Corpus alone is worth the Suite cost to me. I mangled a loop last night with it.