Launchpad Pro - APC Mini and APC Key 25 Killer

[Buleriachk]

I purchased both the APC Mini and APC Key 25, thinking they would be my Launchpad killer for performance (I use them for backing tracks, where I need instant access to volume and session clips).

I am infuriated and disgusted that Ableton/Live omitted Session Overview on (WTF?) session intensive devices for performing with clips, organized in 8x8 groups (by key, time signature, etc.). What a waste of money for me. At least Session Overview is included with my APC40 mk II, but I am hesitant to take it along on my motorcycle to gigs, same for my Push.

It looks like the new Novation Pro is truly going to be the APC killer - a portable push, so I can leave my expensive push in the studio, and I'm sure it will have Session Overview...

Akai/Ableton, WTF were you thinking with those two units?

[JohnLoftus]

Hi there,

Can I ask;
When you say 'session overview' what specifically do you mean?

[JohnLoftus]

Hi there,

Can I ask; When you say 'session overview' what specifically do you mean?

[BoddAH]

I am infuriated and disgusted that Ableton/Live omitted Session Overview on (WTF?) session intensive devices for performing with clips, organized in 8x8 groups (by key, time signature, etc.). What a waste of money for me. At least Session Overview is included with my APC40 mk II, but I am hesitant to take it along on my motorcycle to gigs, same for my Push.

It looks like the new Novation Pro is truly going to be the APC killer - a portable push, so I can leave my expensive push in the studio, and I'm sure it will have Session Overview...

I don’t mean any disrespect but there’s so many things wrong with your post I don’t even know where to begin.

• Akai or Ableton never advertised the session Overview Function. Maybe the problem isn’t the “missing” feature but the lack of research on your part before buying.
• New products with better specifications and shiny new features largely making previous models less attractive or even obsolete come out all the time. This phenomenon has always existed especially in tech and electronics. Deal with it.
• The Launchpad and the APC series isn’t even made by the same company. If you feel that Novation one-upped Akai here, it’s great for them and probably sucks for you (since you feel like you bought the “inferior” product) but it’s hardly the fault of anybody.
• Besides, Launchpad Pro will likely cost between 300 and 400 EUR which would make it almost as expensive as Push. It will be a premium product and can hardly be compared with the APC Mini or APC Key 25 which are budget and ultraportable controllers.
• With all that being said. The main selling point of the APC series compared with the Launchpad or even Push is the presence of dedicated faders or keys (in the case of the APC Key 25) which are very useful for mixing live and playing chromatically respectively. Even if all these products have some overlapping features they are fundamentally different.

I recommend that you sell your controllers on eBay if you don’t like them and buy a Launchpad Pro once it hits the market if you want it so much instead of complaining.

My 2 cents.

[Buleriachk]

I don’t mean any disrespect but there’s so many things wrong with your post I don’t even know where to begin.

• Akai or Ableton never advertised the session Overview Function. Maybe the problem isn’t the “missing” feature but the lack of research on your part before buying.
• New products with better specifications and shiny new features largely making previous models less attractive or even obsolete come out all the time. This phenomenon has always existed especially in tech and electronics. Deal with it.
• The Launchpad and the APC series isn’t even made by the same company. If you feel that Novation one-upped Akai here, it’s great for them and probably sucks for you (since you feel like you bought the “inferior” product) but it’s hardly the fault of anybody.
• Besides, Launchpad Pro will likely cost between 300 and 400 EUR which would make it almost as expensive as Push. It will be a premium product and can hardly be compared with the APC Mini or APC Key 25 which are budget and ultraportable controllers.
• With all that being said. The main selling point of the APC series compared with the Launchpad or even Push is the presence of dedicated faders or keys (in the case of the APC Key 25) which are very useful for mixing live and playing chromatically respectively. Even if all these products have some overlapping features they are fundamentally different.

I recommend that you sell your controllers on eBay if you don’t like them and buy a Launchpad Pro once it hits the market if you want it so much instead of complaining.

My 2 cents.

Then you shouldn't begin, since your response isn't even worth two cents. You obviously use these units in very limited ways (one bank per session). In Ableton's onsite manual when they were announced, they specified that Session Overview was implemented. It was changed shortly after I discovered the error.

And this isn't a hardware issue. I have looked at the Python script, and it is because they derive the Mini from the Key software, and thus simply ignore the different matrix sizes.

You may be a fanboi of both companies, but your rant is simply irrelevant, other than to agree with the stupid design decision that may not impact you as it does me. Selling these units is out of the question; I would not get anywhere near what I paid for them (have you ever sold anything on EBay used?)

I love Ableton for Live 9, and I own Akai's APC40 Mk1 which is really excellent. But this was a design decision that was just irresponsible and insulting to users (although if you don't use different banks, then I can see why you don't understand my point).

And I wish you love and happiness within your obvious limitations..

[Buleriachk]

Hi there,
Can I ask; When you say 'session overview' what specifically do you mean?

Session Overview means the ability to change banks (as on the Launchpad and Push and, yes, both APC40's) It is important to me because I organize the sets I use in terms of key as well as time signature, assigning one bank to each function so I can switch them easily in performance.

If all you need is one bank, the units are fine. (That is all most beginners need). But I create projects with multiple banks on the APC40 (5x8) as well as Push (8x8), and needed something portable to control them on gigs.

Not including it in these units is unconscionable, since it is a small matter of applying a separate Python script for each unit, instead of deriving one from the other so as to ignore the different matrix configuration.

[BoddAH]

Then you shouldn't begin, since your response isn't even worth two cents. You obviously use these units in very limited ways (one bank per session). In Ableton's onsite manual when they were announced, they specified that Session Overview was implemented. It was changed shortly after I discovered the error.

And this isn't a hardware issue. I have looked at the Python script, and it is because they derive the Mini from the Key software, and thus simply ignore the different matrix sizes.

You may be a fanboi of both companies, but your rant is simply irrelevant, other than to agree with the stupid design decision that may not impact you as it does me. Selling these units is out of the question; I would not get anywhere near what I paid for them (have you ever sold anything on EBay used?)

I love Ableton for Live 9, and I own Akai's APC40 Mk1 which is really excellent. But this was a design decision that was just irresponsible and insulting to users (although if you don't use different banks, then I can see why you don't understand my point).

And I wish you love and happiness within your obvious limitations..

I do realize the usefulness of Session View Banks and use the function all the time on Push with larger sets. I also used it when I still had the Launchpad a few years ago. I don’t feel limited in any because like you I own and use Push but unlike you I didn’t buy another micro-controller costing a fraction of the price and expecting it to have all the same features.
My point wasn’t that this feature is useless but simply that it wasn’t part of the specifications and that as such you can’t just expect it to be there and be mad if it isn’t. Although if what you say is true and it actually was announced and removed at the last second without notifying the buyers this truly sucks. In any case, Session View Banks probably would’ve been relatively easy to implement and they made a bad design decision.

[JohnLoftus]

Hi there,
Can I ask; When you say 'session overview' what specifically do you mean?

Session Overview means the ability to change banks (as on the Launchpad and Push and, yes, both APC40's) It is important to me because I organize the sets I use in terms of key as well as time signature, assigning one bank to each function so I can switch them easily in performance.

If all you need is one bank, the units are fine. (That is all most beginners need). But I create projects with multiple banks on the APC40 (5x8) as well as Push (8x8), and needed something portable to control them on gigs.

Not including it in these units is unconscionable, since it is a small matter of applying a separate Python script for each unit, instead of deriving one from the other so as to ignore the different matrix configuration.

Hi there,

I thought that this is what you were referring to,
I have just checked on the Launchpad Pro here and you will be glad to know that this is a feature that appears to have made it onto the new version too!


Kind regards,

John Loftus // Focusrite | Novation Tech Support

[Buleriachk]

Hi there,
Can I ask; When you say 'session overview' what specifically do you mean?

Session Overview means the ability to change banks (as on the Launchpad and Push and, yes, both APC40's) It is important to me because I organize the sets I use in terms of key as well as time signature, assigning one bank to each function so I can switch them easily in performance.

If all you need is one bank, the units are fine. (That is all most beginners need). But I create projects with multiple banks on the APC40 (5x8) as well as Push (8x8), and needed something portable to control them on gigs.

Not including it in these units is unconscionable, since it is a small matter of applying a separate Python script for each unit, instead of deriving one from the other so as to ignore the different matrix configuration.

Hi there,

I thought that this is what you were referring to,
I have just checked on the Launchpad Pro here and you will be glad to know that this is a feature that appears to have made it onto the new version too!


Kind regards,

John Loftus // Focusrite | Novation Tech Support

Thanks; (I have both Launchpads and will purchase the new version). If only you had made the APC Mini and the APC Key 25. They would be fantastic units if it weren't for this. Don't hire that engineer if he tries to get a job.. Actually, I didn't know that that is what it was called either until I tried to switch banks...