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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:55 am
by golemus
Pitch Black wrote:
golemus wrote:I did some initial tests... I have an 80 track project (each track has Massive, Pro-Q, Volcano, Timeless and Zebrify)
This is a real-world scenario for you?
Yes, or almost. Lets say that in my largest projects the amount of tracks approach about 100. Of those maybe 70% are VST instruments and of those maybe 70% are CPU/RAM heavy VST instruments. When the project reaches its end the amount of tracks is reduced significantly, usually to abt. 40-50 tracks or so.

I explain a bit of my workflow. I do a lot of melodies. I make a melody, choose a patch, then put a few plugs. After this I duplicate the track, and browse through patches until I find next one I like. Then I do this again, sometimes about 10 times if it is important melody. So I have 10 duplicates of the same melody with different patches, some of them even with different VST instrument. Then I play it above bassline and percussions.

Then I make another melody. I repeat this process and get another 5-10 tracks.

Then I do the same for drumloops, I get maybe 5-8 drumloops.

After I have these I experiment by muting/unmuting different channels that which VST-instrument/patch fits the best to the mood I am trying to create. Then again I do this with the loops.

Only when the song is in quite final phases I feel that I can with confidence decide patches and then start deleting all duplicate melodies. Sometimes after that creating extra layers with new patches (chosen with the same approach.



So even that there is this large amount of tracks, most of the time most of them are muted, and in the end deleted :)

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:24 am
by ImNotDedYet
golemus wrote:I did some initial tests. I did not test the automation latency compensation but I just tested the feature that annoys me the most: sluggishness with project that has a lot of VST plugins (and load / unload times).

Unfortunately it seems that virtually nothing has improved in this issue. I created exactly the same project with Live 9.1.4 and 9.2b1, both 64-bit versions. When I have an 80 track project (each track has Massive, Pro-Q, Volcano, Timeless and Zebrify), and I delete a track, it takes about 7 seconds of waiting for deletion from pressing the delete button. After pressing the "close ableton live button" I have to wait and stare the loading mouse pointer for whopping 170 seconds before Live actually closes. (machine is i7 3770k, 8GB RAM, SSD)

It felt though that loading VST plugins might be a bit snappier than it was before. I am not sure though..
Sorry my man, but that's not a Live problem. That's a too small of a PC problem.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:42 am
by Pitch Black
golemus wrote:
Pitch Black wrote:
golemus wrote:I did some initial tests... I have an 80 track project (each track has Massive, Pro-Q, Volcano, Timeless and Zebrify)
This is a real-world scenario for you?
Yes, or almost. Lets say that in my largest projects the amount of tracks approach about 100. Of those maybe 70% are VST instruments and of those maybe 70% are CPU/RAM heavy VST instruments. When the project reaches its end the amount of tracks is reduced significantly, usually to abt. 40-50 tracks or so.

I explain a bit of my workflow. I do a lot of melodies. I make a melody, choose a patch, then put a few plugs. After this I duplicate the track, and browse through patches until I find next one I like. Then I do this again, sometimes about 10 times if it is important melody. So I have 10 duplicates of the same melody with different patches, some of them even with different VST instrument. Then I play it above bassline and percussions.

Then I make another melody. I repeat this process and get another 5-10 tracks.

Then I do the same for drumloops, I get maybe 5-8 drumloops.

After I have these I experiment by muting/unmuting different channels that which VST-instrument/patch fits the best to the mood I am trying to create. Then again I do this with the loops.

Only when the song is in quite final phases I feel that I can with confidence decide patches and then start deleting all duplicate melodies. Sometimes after that creating extra layers with new patches (chosen with the same approach.



So even that there is this large amount of tracks, most of the time most of them are muted, and in the end deleted :)
Once you're happy with each melody track, you could freeze it and it's siblings as you go. Then it will only become a disk read-access issue and less of a CPU issue?

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:13 am
by GridLights
Deleted post.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:41 am
by pencilrocket
The amount of track shouldn't be the problem. Professional producer uses 100+ tracks in their project. Daw was different though.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:53 am
by re:dream
pencilrocket wrote:Professional producer uses 100+ tracks in their project.
Who's that? Never heard of them.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:57 am
by pencilrocket
Dr. Luke. There must be other producers too...

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:07 am
by H20nly
must be.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:25 am
by ze2be
H20nly wrote:must be.
Roni Size, and I bet a whole lot of big time producers.
A lot of psytrance producers for sure.
Film/Video/fx producers.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:28 am
by eyeknow
Blah blah blah....

Blah blah blah blah.....

blah blah blah.

If anyone is having a problem and is NOT part of the live illuminati, they you are subject to illuminati rules. Thus forward........

-anyone having issues is COMPLETELY at fault and thus is disqualified.
-anyone not adhering to the rules (thus fanboi'ing) to live is disqualified.
-all people that did not have their feature requests implemented, and obviously ENTITLED to a complete refund under rule x....dahrdokahjld, f....off. Please inquire with customer support for info.
-please continue whining about every single thing.
-Never be happy. Never think to yourself "man, abe's are listening and trying to improve things"
Never do that.

But most important........

Never make music. Always banter on about how live is keeping you from obtaining you ultimate goal of world domination. Please, don't stop.

bitter in parting? Yeah, I am. Live was fucking great for me (sans cprezz the fag and M4L, which was a mess)

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:55 am
by TomViolenz
^melodramatic much?!

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:13 am
by fistikuffs
TomViolenz wrote:
fistikuffs wrote:
Quez wrote:Great news.
The continued updates and improvements are welcome.

I would also blame dropping the support of OS X 10.5 & 10.6 on Apple. It's time they stop it with the yearly OS instalments.
I'd think that's fair when you consider that they are still supporting XP, a 14 year old OS!
except that they dropped that too ;-)
They will drop it when 9.2 is released but my point is by supporting a 14 year old surely demonstrates a commitment to legacy set ups. When you consider that XP is no longer supported by MS then it's reasonable, a year on from MS dropping support, to finally move beyond XP

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:50 am
by tedlogan
Well, the first update to 9.2 was quick to arrive:

9.2b2 Release Notes
Improvements and feature changes:

The latency introduced by a device is now displayed in the status bar, when hovering over the title bar with the mouse. No latencies are shown when latency compensation is turned off.
The Serato bridge is now compatible with Live 9.2

Bugfixes:

Fixed a crash which might occur when importing audio files with sample rates lower than 44.1KHz.
Automation and Modulation for Beat Repeat's mixer parameters (e.g Mix Type, Volume, Filter, Frequency, etc) and Device On are now compensated.
Fixed a bug where the mouse cursor would stay in stopwatch or beachball mode until the user physically moved the mouse. This would happen after loading devices, live sets, or anything else which would necessitate the use of the stopwatch cursor.
Updated the pixel font (used primarily in device LCDs like Operator) for retina displays. Also improved the aspect of envelope curves drawn in the device's LCD displays.
Fixed a glitch where the modulated value would become visible as an orange dot while the dragging a slider, although it should have matched the value of the control.

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:54 am
by tecolo
pencilrocket wrote:The amount of track shouldn't be the problem. Professional producer uses 100+ tracks in their project. Daw was different though.
Umm what...hahaha

last time i used to inspect list of gear and track count used by my favorite producers which also happen to define whole subculture and genre of music (such as Kraftwerk, Jeff Mills, Robert Hood, Aphex Twin and so on) and as such they can be considered as "pro" - they at best used from 5 to 15 tracks (depending on recording medium) and with 7 or 8 hardware instruments per songs at best... That same songs which are popular still, despite the fact that decades passed.

My favorite live bands (so we don't speak about electronic anymore) which are still popular these days (such as RHCP, blabla) don't use more then 15 tracks per platinum selling songs (videos on recording sessions available online).

Ummm...go figure..

Not even full blown orchestra doesn't use more then 40-50 tracks per recording session..


But hey some dude on internet managed to convince people that 100++ tracks are ok to be in session and that it's cool and your computer should handle it..

What a funny world we live in..

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:58 am
by TomViolenz
tecolo wrote:
pencilrocket wrote:The amount of track shouldn't be the problem. Professional producer uses 100+ tracks in their project. Daw was different though.
Umm what...hahaha

last time i used to inspect list of gear and track count used by my favorite producers which also happen to define whole subculture and genre of music (such as Kraftwerk, Jeff Mills, Robert Hood, Aphex Twin and so on) and as such they can be considered as "pro" - they at best used from 5 to 15 tracks (depending on recording medium) and with 7 or 8 hardware instruments per songs at best... That same songs which are popular still, despite the fact that decades passed.

My favorite live bands (so we don't speak about electronic anymore) which are still popular these days (such as RHCP, blabla) don't use more then 15 tracks per platinum selling songs (videos on recording sessions available online).

Ummm...go figure..

Not even full blown orchestra doesn't use more then 40-50 tracks per recording session..


But hey some dude on internet managed to convince people that 100++ tracks are ok to be in session and that it's cool and your computer should handle it..

What a funny world we live in..
what are you trying to tell us?!
That people who use many tracks are unreasonable? Not good musicians?!

look at little further than the tip of your nose sometimes, there are whole universes beyond it ;-)

And it's not about if the computer can handle it, it can (CPU meter always below 50%). It's about if the software can!
And Live certainly struggles with it.