LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:00 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
I use only Live and I'm not sure if this workflow would even be possible in any other DAW.

What does that have to do with anything though?
yeah, me too. The question for me is what performance is reasonable to demand from Live? What is it we need that we don't have now?

It used to be you threw hardware on these kinds of problems. It costs a lot of money, but that should usually be expected. Pro performance costs.
What are our respective expectations when it comes to performance? I'm not expecting a 4-core MacBook Pro from 2014 to give the same horse power as 12-core Mac Pro. It seems to me different hardware and different track sets should modify our expectations. I'm not sure what is reasonable though. But at the moment I'm pretty satisfied. Nothing is perfect though.
Make some music!

GridLights
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:21 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by GridLights » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:08 pm

Deleted post.
Last edited by GridLights on Thu May 28, 2015 2:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:08 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
I use only Live and I'm not sure if this workflow would even be possible in any other DAW.

What does that have to do with anything though?
yeah, me too. The question for me is what performance is reasonable to demand from Live? What is it we need that we don't have now?

It used to be you threw hardware on these kinds of problems. It costs a lot of money, but that should usually be expected. Pro performance costs.
What are our respective expectations when it comes to performance? I'm not expecting a 4-core MacBook Pro from 2014 to give the same horse power as 12-core Mac Pro. It seems to me different hardware and different track sets should modify our expectations. I'm not sure what is reasonable though. But at the moment I'm pretty satisfied. Nothing is perfect though.
as I said before it's not about raw performance.

96 SimpleDelays + 17 DrumRacks + 16 Samplers in my routing scenario don't even move the CPU meter beyond 10% on my i7 MBP (2012)

Live nonetheless is sluggish. Selecting one of the tracks with the mouse takes Live 1-2 seconds before it puts that track into focus.

If I assign Midi controls to each of these SimpleDelays it gets worse, much worse.

Now watching Live update the GUI for a parameter change via Midi takes up to 5 seconds after I hear the audio being affected.

So far the audio processing is stable, but this behavior makes me uneasy since I plan to use this set up live!

mr.adl
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:02 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by mr.adl » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:09 pm

There is a new beta available, anybody knows if beta 1 will automatically update to beta 2 or do i have to download beta 2 and install it myself? When i click on the "search for updates" button in Live it only takes me to my account for stable 9.1.7.

BoddAH
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by BoddAH » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:10 pm

hyperscientist wrote:Image

I wonder what do those audio engineers use these for.

I'm thinking… maybe controlling space shuttles as surely nobody needs these many tracks for making music…
I count 80 tracks.

So still significantly less than a hundred. And that’s the absolute maximum that this console can handle. In practice it’s probably usually much less. :P

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:11 pm

hyperscientist wrote:[
I wonder what do those audio engineers use these for.

I'm thinking… maybe controlling space shuttles as surely nobody needs these many tracks for making music…
Are they using Live typically? Pro Tools seems more likely. Pears and Oranges?
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:13 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
as I said before it's not about raw performance.

96 SimpleDelays + 17 DrumRacks + 16 Samplers in my routing scenario don't even move the CPU meter beyond 10% on my i7 MBP (2012)

Live nonetheless is sluggish. Selecting one of the tracks with the mouse takes Live 1-2 seconds before it puts that track into focus.

If I assign Midi controls to each of these SimpleDelays it gets worse, much worse.

Now watching Live update the GUI for a parameter change via Midi takes up to 5 seconds after I hear the audio being affected.

So far the audio processing is stable, but this behavior makes me uneasy since I plan to use this set up live!
I feel you. So this is mainly a GUI thing? Could it be Live needs better hardware graphics acceleration support? Or simply better graphics code?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:15 pm

mr.adl wrote:There is a new beta available, anybody knows if beta 1 will automatically update to beta 2 or do i have to download beta 2 and install it myself? When i click on the "search for updates" button in Live it only takes me to my account for stable 9.1.7.
People keep telling me that the beta can't be stopped from auto-updating, but I always had to download the full new version.
Make some music!

mr.adl
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:02 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by mr.adl » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:19 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
mr.adl wrote:There is a new beta available, anybody knows if beta 1 will automatically update to beta 2 or do i have to download beta 2 and install it myself? When i click on the "search for updates" button in Live it only takes me to my account for stable 9.1.7.
People keep telling me that the beta can't be stopped from auto-updating, but I always had to download the full new version.
Thanks for your response! (besides all that 100 tracks or not "discussion" :lol: )

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:31 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
as I said before it's not about raw performance.

96 SimpleDelays + 17 DrumRacks + 16 Samplers in my routing scenario don't even move the CPU meter beyond 10% on my i7 MBP (2012)

Live nonetheless is sluggish. Selecting one of the tracks with the mouse takes Live 1-2 seconds before it puts that track into focus.

If I assign Midi controls to each of these SimpleDelays it gets worse, much worse.

Now watching Live update the GUI for a parameter change via Midi takes up to 5 seconds after I hear the audio being affected.

So far the audio processing is stable, but this behavior makes me uneasy since I plan to use this set up live!
I feel you. So this is mainly a GUI thing? Could it be Live needs better hardware graphics acceleration support? Or simply better graphics code?

heck if I know. but the change of focus sounds like more than just a graphics issue.

That said: if it turns out to be solely graphics, then this doesn't bother me much. I won't look at the screen live anyways. ( except maybe for EQ8 playing 8) )

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:10 pm

GridLights wrote:
Ok, just give me a useful example of a 100 track project's true purpose then.

Unless it's a complicated live performance where you need everything to segregated to achieve flexibility and such on demand, I hardly see any reason why 100 track is smart and efficient for production, there are tons of way to reduce the resource intensity. Like I said earlier, it's bad project management, like when I do programming I don't lump every single code into one file when I can use a structure to keep everything optimized.
I don't think 100+ tracks is a typical scenario, but for certain types of music it's imaginable at least to use that many tracks with layering of sounds and using alternative microphones and what not. I'm assuming busses and return tracks count as well?

Personally I use about 8-16 tracks for drums alone as I process each voice individually as well as sending it all to a drum buss. If you count grouped sounds there are a few more too. Typically that's the kick and snare and maybe a few more voices. Then maybe up to 16 tracks including return tracks for the rest. I seldom do more than thirty.
But this is my tracks and these are usually well organized, in the end at least. I'm also quite minimalistic minded. Everyone's needs and priorities are different.
Make some music!

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:17 pm

GridLights wrote:
Ok, just give me a useful example of a 100 track project's true purpose then.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Unless it's a complicated live performance where you need everything to segregated to achieve flexibility and such on demand,
How is that not reason enough?!

You know the program is called Live for a reason, right?!

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:21 pm

Stromkraft wrote: Everyone's needs and priorities are different.
Amen!

And that's what some of the more arrogant posters here don't seem to understand. If they don't need it, it must obviously not be neccessary... :roll:

crumhorn
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by crumhorn » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:24 pm

You only have to drop in one of Ableton's multi-mic drum kits to add about 100 channels to the mixer. (not counted them but it certainly seems like that). So I think it's necessary to draw a distinction between channels and tracks when talking about performance.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:28 pm

crumhorn wrote:You only have to drop in one of Ableton's multi-mic drum kits to add about 100 channels to the mixer. (not counted them but it certainly seems like that). So I think it's necessary to draw a distinction between channels and tracks when talking about performance.
I extract all drum rack "channels" to real Live tracks, so there's no big distinction to me. Of course grouped rack tracks remain so for me. I've yet to process these separately in a proper track. I just EQ them differently sometimes.
Make some music!

Post Reply