LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Angstrom
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:25 pm

TheCoil wrote:Since they added a feature where you can hover your pointer to see the amount of latency being introduced by a plugin, does this mean that PDC hasn't been fixed? Why would you need to see the amount of latency if it was being compensated for, shouldn't there be no latency now?
The latency is compensated, not eliminated. All plugins which require time to calculate an outcome still require time, but now we know it. What has changed is automation is in sync with the latency the plugin introduces.

These sort of statements annoy me more than anything because they show a lack of understanding. If you are going to say "Fix PDC!" then you probably ought to understand what it is. Live has had good PDC for a long time, several versions. What was not compensated was automation. Automation is now compensated to align with the latency corrected offset audio streams

TheCoil
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TheCoil » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:41 pm

Angstrom wrote:
TheCoil wrote:Since they added a feature where you can hover your pointer to see the amount of latency being introduced by a plugin, does this mean that PDC hasn't been fixed? Why would you need to see the amount of latency if it was being compensated for, shouldn't there be no latency now?
The latency is compensated, not eliminated. All plugins which require time to calculate an outcome still require time, but now we know it. What has changed is automation is in sync with the latency the plugin introduces.

These sort of statements annoy me more than anything because they show a lack of understanding. If you are going to say "Fix PDC!" then you probably ought to understand what it is. Live has had good PDC for a long time, several versions. What was not compensated was automation. Automation is now compensated to align with the latency corrected offset audio streams
I DO have a lack of understanding, that's why I was asking the question, not everyone is a messageboard genius like you.

Stromkraft
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:03 pm

TheCoil wrote:Since they added a feature where you can hover your pointer to see the amount of latency being introduced by a plugin, does this mean that PDC hasn't been fixed? Why would you need to see the amount of latency if it was being compensated for, shouldn't there be no latency now?
What do you think the compensation part of Plug-in Delay Compensation really is?

PDC is what compensates for a plugin's delay. It's not magic. When you add a plug-in to a track, it always takes some time to make the calculations. When you're inserting different plug-ins on different tracks, without PDC everything would be out of time with everything else as calculations take different times to finish. With PDC everything is delayed the same so that all tracks play in time with each other.

This happened also before Live 9.2. The new thing is that automation is also delayed in the same fashion, with a few exceptions. In Live 9.1.7 and before automation is executed out of time with the delay compensated audio.
Make some music!

TheCoil
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TheCoil » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:12 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
TheCoil wrote:Since they added a feature where you can hover your pointer to see the amount of latency being introduced by a plugin, does this mean that PDC hasn't been fixed? Why would you need to see the amount of latency if it was being compensated for, shouldn't there be no latency now?
What do you think the compensation part of Plug-in Delay Compensation really is?

PDC is what compensates for a plugin's delay. It's not magic. When you add a plug-in to a track, it always takes some time to make the calculations. When you're inserting different plug-ins on different tracks, without PDC everything would be out of time with everything else as calculations take different times to finish. With PDC everything is delayed the same so that all tracks play in time with each other.

This happened also before Live 9.2. The new thing is that automation is also delayed in the same fashion, with a few exceptions.
Ah, got it, thanks, I think I understand now. The problem is I thought PDC stood for Pedantic Dickhead Commenters, oops! :D

re:dream
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by re:dream » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:14 pm

In Live 9.3, warping will bend time itself, thus eliminating all latency.

Stromkraft
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:19 pm

TheCoil wrote: Ah, got it, thanks, I think I understand now. The problem is I thought PDC stood for Pedantic Dickhead Commenters, oops! :D
Asking questions is what it's all about.
Learning by experience is probably one of the better ways to learn, but the very idea with a forum is to ask questions for those areas that are hard to get by experience alone.

I ask "stupid" questions from time to time. When you start pretending you have all the answers is when you stop learning. All great teachers I've met ask questions also when they're giving answers. They are always learning.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:19 pm

re:dream wrote:In Live 9.3, warping will bend time itself, thus eliminating all latency.
No, no, that's a Live 10 feature slated for release 2018.

How about the Ableton Live Quantum version for Quantum computers?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Make some music!

re:dream
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by re:dream » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:19 pm

Broomptish wrote:
Cool doesnt seem to be working with me, I need to highlight everything then duplicate, clicking the loop brace doesnt highlight anything, only the selected track is highlighted, how do you do it exactly? cheers
(1) I just I put loop brace on desired section,
(2) then click within the loop brace, thus selecting them
(3) and then just drag the tracks.

Stromkraft
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:27 pm

Angstrom wrote:Automation is now compensated to align with the latency corrected offset audio streams
I think that's most automation, but not the host synced, right? I don't really see why that must be unsolvable though. I suppose it can be a bit tricky with where the host synced automation is sent as it can affect different parts of the same audio chain.

What do you think?
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:31 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Angstrom wrote:Automation is now compensated to align with the latency corrected offset audio streams
I think that's most automation, but not the host synced, right? I don't really see why that must be unsolvable though. I suppose it can be a bit tricky with where the host synced automation is sent as it can affect different parts of the same audio chain.

What do you think?
It's possible we'll see clock sync offsets come in a later beta. Who can tell with Ableton?
I guess if they introduce them one at a time (automation offsets and then synced device offsets) then it's easier to identify and isolate any issues the users notice.

TomViolenz
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:48 am

re:dream wrote:In Live 9.3, warping will bend time itself, thus eliminating all latency.
But only with the anti-matter module to bend space time.
To be sold seperately.
:mrgreen:

Anti-matter not included

TomViolenz
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:52 am

Stromkraft wrote:
re:dream wrote:In Live 9.3, warping will bend time itself, thus eliminating all latency.
No, no, that's a Live 10 feature slated for release 2018.

How about the Ableton Live Quantum version for Quantum computers?
You take the encription of you Live sets seriously huh? :lol:

crumhorn
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by crumhorn » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:11 am

re:dream wrote:In Live 9.3, warping will bend time itself, thus eliminating all latency.
Once they have this perfected they plan to travel back in time and retrospectively introduce it into Live 1. We will all suddenly realize that it was fine all along :)
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Broomptish
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Broomptish » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:46 pm

re:dream wrote:
Broomptish wrote:
Cool doesnt seem to be working with me, I need to highlight everything then duplicate, clicking the loop brace doesnt highlight anything, only the selected track is highlighted, how do you do it exactly? cheers
(1) I just I put loop brace on desired section,
(2) then click within the loop brace, thus selecting them
(3) and then just drag the tracks.
great got it cheers man duh :oops:

Grill Pheiss
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Re: LIVE 9.2b1 Discuss....

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:16 pm

I'm suprised no one mentioned that the timing of old projects (particularelly heavy ones) is now complettely off in 9.2

some tracks sound audibly and clearly overcompensated when played back in 9.2 versus 9.1, giving a very non musical rush feel that spans un-evenely over individual tracks

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