What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
re:dream
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What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by re:dream » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:04 pm

So I have been thinking about Angstrom's and Machinesworking's comments about Ableton's choice to go with M4L, and have been wondering about the upsides and downsides.

Now I am strictly a consumer of M4L devices. I will never make one. So I was wondering: the value of M4L for me is strictly the devices that I would have to do without. Would I miss them?

There are some things I thought would be 'swiss army knives' that have turned out to be complete duds - like LFO.

There's convolution reverb.

What else?

Umm...

Amazingnoises's dark synth is kind of cool.
Its Little Enveloper is absolutely brilliant (now there's a swiss army knife for you [ooh... thought... :idea: can someone PLEASE ask Maurizio Giri to design an LFO?])

I am starting to like Dub Machines...

What else is there?

stringtapper
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by stringtapper » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:41 pm

The one I'm making to solve the problem of the moment. 8)
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tedlogan
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by tedlogan » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:19 pm

Strictly M4L consumer here as well, and I can live without it, but I do like the following devices so far (so much novelty and junk devices to wade through - which I cannot delete directly from Live's browser...)

Convolution Reverb Pro is great (high CPU unfortunately)

LFO1: Mainly in a simple pre-mapped EQ8+LFO rack as a LP filter modulator - I like playing around with this set to RampDown, and adjusting the Depth and Offset (which basically then acts as control of the target) parameters. Standard stuff, but sounds great. Variations of this pre-mapped rack for quick loading from Push to bolt on to the end of VSTs would include EQ8's HP filter's Q being modulated, which sounds pretty cool on sitar-esque patches.
Much better and varied results than Autofilter.

LFO2.0.5 http://www.roberthenke.com/technology/lfo.html is pretty good. I like quantising. I really need to explore this device more.

Envelope - another basic building block.

All of these should be native optimised Live devices.

EDIT: Push + these basic devices + instruments/VST = a modular system that I'm having a lot of fun with. It's no Bazille (and not quite an apt comparison at all), but these can be handy augmentations to existing patches/racks.

theophilus
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by theophilus » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:58 pm

specifically for things that you can really only do in max (so ignoring things like the convolution reverb pro which, while nice, there are VSTs for):

liquid rhythm
j74 progressive
one of the various device randomizers
spectral delay is not that common
i just found 'Max Matrix Devices' which lets you allow parameters in one device to control parameters in another...

twinstates
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by twinstates » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:26 pm

tedlogan wrote: All of these should be native optimised Live devices.
Yes.

Live needs the same automation control as bitwig. Send LFo's envelopes, envelope followers etc to anything anywhere.

The ability to generate and modulate (and modulate the modulators) control signals is needed natively.
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slatepipe
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by slatepipe » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:01 pm

the thing i made to use my usb gamepad as a synth, sample player, mangler, live navigator and recorder. took me ages and it's not perfect but it's pretty amazing. much help provided by people here

the thing my friend made me to control my fcb with my bass.

skinnerbox

the conv reverb set to berlin hall

plenty more, cant think at the mo

tedlogan
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by tedlogan » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:28 pm

twinstates wrote:
tedlogan wrote: All of these should be native optimised Live devices.
Yes.

Live needs the same automation control as bitwig. Send LFo's envelopes, envelope followers etc to anything anywhere.

The ability to generate and modulate (and modulate the modulators) control signals is needed natively.
Yeah, this essentially. I haven't used Bitwig yet, but the YouTube videos regarding this look great. So simple and elegantly implemented.

login
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by login » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:54 am

The device I use more is Magnetic from dubmachines.

irrelevance
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by irrelevance » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:41 am

Controller patches that keep the launchpad from becoming a doorstop are always appreciated but there are a few that no longer work with current versions.

Isotonik gridlink for push/apc40mk2
Valiumedup's modwheel
Stray aftertouch push patch
Lfo

Tried 100s but this is what i use all the time no sound generation from max for me its not worth the hit in cpu better off with vst reaktor scope dsp etc

*edit I like the skinnerbox time and salami patches also.

tedlogan
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by tedlogan » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:09 am

irrelevance wrote:Controller patches that keep the launchpad from becoming a doorstop are always appreciated but there are a few that no longer work with current versions.

Isotonik gridlink for push/apc40mk2
Valiumedup's modwheel
Stray aftertouch push patch
Lfo

Tried 100s but this is what i use all the time no sound generation from max for me its not worth the hit in cpu better off with vst reaktor scope dsp etc

*edit I like the skinnerbox time and salami patches also.
I gather you've not tried the 9.2beta yet - modwheel now, which you probably know. But aftertouch has been massively improved. You can really play with so much more control now, I'm rather stoked about this. Before the update AT was way too sensitive.

irrelevance
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by irrelevance » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:38 am

tedlogan wrote:
irrelevance wrote:Controller patches that keep the launchpad from becoming a doorstop are always appreciated but there are a few that no longer work with current versions.

Isotonik gridlink for push/apc40mk2
Valiumedup's modwheel
Stray aftertouch push patch
Lfo

Tried 100s but this is what i use all the time no sound generation from max for me its not worth the hit in cpu better off with vst reaktor scope dsp etc

*edit I like the skinnerbox time and salami patches also.
I gather you've not tried the 9.2beta yet - modwheel now, which you probably know. But aftertouch has been massively improved. You can really play with so much more control now, I'm rather stoked about this. Before the update AT was way too sensitive.
I've seen it and can't wait for the official release but I'm off beta for now and happier for it as I see there is already a new beta up since the first announcement. I can't be bothered to keep up with that! So I wait :|

Great news on the aftertouch tedlogan and of course modwheel. It's a shame but the update will make a few patches redundant and as there is no resale value I wonder if I should pillage the circuits for reusable code before consigning to the recycle bin :lol:

Quez
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by Quez » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:03 pm

Up to now I have mostly been using Convolution Reverb (+ CV Pro), the LFO and the M4Live device that allows control of Reason devices parameters. I find M4L wonderful and it's now part of my default set.

I hope to discover/use more as I keep learning and composing :)

S4racen
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by S4racen » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:04 pm

I know it's a conflict of interests but i haven't put Asteroids down for a week now...

Cheers
D

Angstrom
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by Angstrom » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:16 pm

My default set has the Convolution reverb and the LFO in it (mapped to the delay speed on a return).
The convo reverb is an excellent piece of work and hopefully one day they make a native version, similarly for the LFO and I hope they can make that version a relative mapping, rather than the M4L absolute mapping.

Having default sets with M4L devices does cause a crash on startup 3 times out of 4, but once its running its reasonably stable. Although it does cause a few occasional blue-screens on device delete (these bugs are filed).

I make my synths, effects and tools in Reaktor these days. It's quicker and more intuitive for what I need to get done. I started on NI Generator back in the 90s, so that helps.

re:dream
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Re: What Max 4 Live device can't you do without?

Post by re:dream » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:29 pm

I hate those M4L induced startup crashes :(

I just use a fairly inoffensive Ableton Reverb in my template. Stick with it until late in the process, when it is necessary to start getting the reverb right & then swop out.

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