A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Citizen
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A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by Citizen » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:52 pm

I've recently watched Ill Gates 'Ill Methodology' and he goes through 128s pretty nicely...but I want more info on this workflow!

Do you:

A.) Build lot of 128s of certain types of samples (kicks, snares, shakers etc), and then drag them into empty drum racks?
(enabling you to mix and match samples from different packs/source in one drum rack)

or...

B.) Place those 128s into Drum Racks in advance, and map selectors to macros so they are all good to go?

Option A.) has the advantage of being able to mix and match from various sources, but then you have to map all your macros, which slows down your workflow.

How do you guys do it? :?:

infernal.machine
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by infernal.machine » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:00 pm

Make the racks in advance. The whole point is that when you sit down to make music you don't have to fiddle with anything. The drum rack is there with samples and macros, ready to go. If you want to replace a cell later, you can do that, but you'll find as you use them more that you generally stick to a few combinations of sounds that work well together.

Just make something and try it out! If it doesn't work, try something else!

Citizen
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by Citizen » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:04 pm

Thank you Infernal Machine...thats the approach that I'm leaning towards.

Can I ask if you place any default processing chains within your 'pre-made' drum racks, and if you've found an 'optimal' way of doing this...

ie. do you keep ALL 8 macros for drum/sample selection, or would you dedicate a few macro knobs to HPF on a kick, or compression parameters, for example?

...or even for Pitch or Decay or Sample Length paramters?

infernal.machine
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by infernal.machine » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:27 pm

I use the Sixteen Macros live device, so 8 for sound selection, and 8 for effects. I tend to keep it pretty simple with the effects I use... anything major I usually do in post-processing.

TomViolenz
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:44 pm

I put my 128s Sampler in a rack, assign the Sample selector to one macro and the others to pitch, HP filter, resonance, shaper amount, volume and attack and release of a transient shaper (Shaak Audio) in the same rack.

My drum rack is filled with 16 of these racks (16 different types of sounds).

I have not found a need to exchange theses 16 128s in a year. The sound design possible just with the controls above makes that pretty much unnecessary.

All my drum kits are thus just different settings of the macros of the racks in my drum rack.
I use clyphx snap clips to store all my kits in the set and exchange them on the fly.

And yes I did spend a lot of time beforehand to select the right samples for my 128s.

Citizen
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by Citizen » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:13 am

infernal.machine wrote:I use the Sixteen Macros live device, so 8 for sound selection, and 8 for effects. I tend to keep it pretty simple with the effects I use...
8O

The what now?!!

Sixteen macros?! :o But HOW?!

You've really piqued my curiosity, sir! I don't suppose you could explain, or even maybe possible show me a screengrab of your rack?

infernal.machine
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by infernal.machine » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:09 am

It's a Max for live device!

login
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by login » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:57 am

TomViolenz wrote:I put my 128s Sampler in a rack, assign the Sample selector to one macro and the others to pitch, HP filter, resonance, shaper amount, volume and attack and release of a transient shaper (Shaak Audio) in the same rack.

My drum rack is filled with 16 of these racks (16 different types of sounds).

I have not found a need to exchange theses 16 128s in a year. The sound design possible just with the controls above makes that pretty much unnecessary.

All my drum kits are thus just different settings of the macros of the racks in my drum rack.
I use clyphx snap clips to store all my kits in the set and exchange them on the fly.

And yes I did spend a lot of time beforehand to select the right samples for my 128s.
I do almost the same, except for the 16 macros device.

Doing the samplers witj 128 before the drum rack is better, that way its easier to recall them for later projects.

One way to save time is to configure a default sampler with stuff like velocity sensitivy, envelopes and filters as you like.

dna598
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by dna598 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:37 am

Make sure you have a truckload of RAM.(i don't). I would love to use this method but it eats up ALL my ram when i use more than a few! Loading times are looooong too. Usually end up using the browser! But when it works its great, as long as you have a good choice of sounds.
ctrl + left/right = select transient

ctrl + shift + left/right = select between transients

ctrl + space = play selection

re:dream
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by re:dream » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:22 am

I follow method A.

It gives me much more flexibility and sets don't take long to load.

And I keep an empty drum rack in my percussion channels, with macros pre-mapped.

Best of both worlds.

alexandermon
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by alexandermon » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:25 pm

I sort of do both:

My instrument racks have Sample Selector and Release mapped to them. I make 128 racks for a variety of purposes and I have a few different 128 templates I made for making new ones quickly. I save all of these in my Instrument Rack Presets folder.

Then for my default set / most used drum kit(s), I group them to drum racks and macro map the sample selectors so that I can easily change 8 sounds using macro knobs. (I'd use the 16 Macro M4L device but M4L isn't compatible with the newest MBPs yet).


If I want to build a new drum rack, I have all of my original instrument racks saved so I can mix and match as you alluded to. Then I can re-do the mapping and save it as a drum rack preset (this is perfect night session work).

However, if I just want to get into writing (day session!) I can just pull up one of my pre-mapped racks.


I'm currently working on making a 128 rack for pitch risers. Basically, it's just a preconfigured sampler with the sample selector pre-mapped and a few other things set up like 20.0s attack on the pitch envelope. +48 env, etc.

Citizen
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by Citizen » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:07 am

Wow – so much good info here – thanks for sharing your workflows. I'm still experimenting with what works for me.

But, I DEFINITELY think the 16 Macros approach, with 8 dedicated to Drum selection, and 8 dedicated to Drum Parameters/FX is going to be part of it.

Also, do any of you incorporate drum layering into your Drum Rack set-up? Perhaps that is adding a further uneccesary layer of complexity, tho....

:roll:

Citizen
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by Citizen » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:48 am

I just checked out the M4L Collection from the Covert Operators – with the 16 Macros and Snapshot Morhper. 8)

I'm using the Sixteen Macros 2.0 device – its great – but unfortunately I am experiencing some weird jitter/resistance when I tweak my encoders to control the Macros. :(

Is this a common issue with M4L devices, or just something odd with this particular one?

I've only just started using M4L stuff, so is this going to be an ongoing issue – I know some users have complained about stability issues with M4L.

logicbomb.de
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by logicbomb.de » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:45 pm

Hi all,

I work using a combination of the two methods and what TomViolenze had mentioned as well

What I do is I create a 128 Instrument/sampler rack and save those as individual Drum rack "Cells" so that I can mix and match on the fly when I just need to swap out a single cell and then save the whole drum rack with the embedded cells for later use when I have a set I really really like.

personally, I don't like being limited to only being able to scroll through only 8 drum rack cells if the selectors are mapped at the top level of the Drum rack macros so I have the selector macro assigned at the cell level, that way each and every drum rack cell that I use can be scrolled through (i'm using push so whenever I tap a new drum pad it auto maps the cell macros to the push knobs).

I have the sampler macros for each cell mapped to Selector, pitch, decay/release, Freq, Res, filter morph, pan, and gain. I know I can just unfold the drum rack to adjust the gain and panning of the individual cells, but it seems like the unfolded drum rack tracks don't automap to Push or APC, etc. so I'd have to do that with a a mouse or hard assign those to another midi controller. it'd just be easier for me to adjust levels and pan from the embedded instrument rack in push/apc and then I don't have to look away from Push.

So, this method of mapping the control leaves me with a full 8 macros at the top level of the rack to dedicate to Fx

I realize this might not be the best work flow for someone who isn't using Push or an automapping control surface, but its the best way for me at the moment as it fits the that i'm used to working with Push.

hope this helps with some additional options and if you need any screen caps from me, just let me know.

cheers!
Live 9 Suite | Push | APC40 MKI | Bass Station II | Roland Tr-8 | Yamaha EX7 | Novation Remote SL49| NI Komplete Audio 6 | Launchpad Mini| LEAP Motion w/ GECO MIDI |

Citizen
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Re: A Q: re. 128s and workflow

Post by Citizen » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:56 pm

Thanks Logicbomb - that's awesome info. 8)
logicbomb.de wrote: What I do is I create a 128 Instrument/sampler rack and save those as individual Drum rack "Cells" so that I can mix and match on the fly when I just need to swap out a single cell and then save the whole drum rack with the embedded cells for later use when I have a set I really really like.

personally, I don't like being limited to only being able to scroll through only 8 drum rack cells if the selectors are mapped at the top level of the Drum rack macros so I have the selector macro assigned at the cell level, that way each and every drum rack cell that I use can be scrolled through (i'm using push so whenever I tap a new drum pad it auto maps the cell macros to the push knobs).
So, are you making racks with 16 cells of 128s - is that right? How are the load times on that? What sort of specs are you running?
logicbomb.de wrote:I have the sampler macros for each cell mapped to Selector, pitch, decay/release, Freq, Res, filter morph, pan, and gain. I know I can just unfold the drum rack to adjust the gain and panning of the individual cells, but it seems like the unfolded drum rack tracks don't automap to Push or APC, etc. so I'd have to do that with a a mouse or hard assign those to another midi controller. it'd just be easier for me to adjust levels and pan from the embedded instrument rack in push/apc and then I don't have to look away from Push.
That makes total sense. I've been scratching my head as to why you can't unfold/fold Drum Racks using Push - especially when you can fold/unfold groups. :roll:

Oh, what is ' Filter Morph' - is that just the Filter Type selector? (Ie. LPF/HPF/NOTCH etc)
logicbomb.de wrote:So, this method of mapping the control leaves me with a full 8 macros at the top level of the rack to dedicate to Fx
Do you leave these unassigned on your rack, and manually assign them to what ever effects that you choose to use in that session, or do you have a dedicated FX chain in your Drum Racks that it is mapped to?

I take it you are not using the 16 Macros M4L device?
logicbomb.de wrote:hope this helps with some additional options and if you need any screen caps from me, just let me know.
I think I understand, but if you don't mind,that would be cool. 8) :D

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