Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
pinkpaint
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by pinkpaint » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Steve Glen wrote:Doesnt pt license the same elastic audio that ableton has. Is the implementation different?
yeah they both go to that one company for their stretching formulas but yes, ableton and pt have implemented them very differently.

Matt_Quinn
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Matt_Quinn » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:55 pm

yur2die4 wrote:
When you build your studio with your 10 grand, do not by ANY MEANS get the APC Mini. The thing is a RIP OFF, has Zero clip overview in session mode, and was programmed by idiots (you can tell they are idiots because they can't make such a simple fix).

Literally almost fell out of my chair laughing at this. Nice one. :lol:
the_planet wrote:Trap music is not supported in the current version.

Buleriachk
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Buleriachk » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:39 pm

Matt_Quinn wrote: Literally almost fell out of my chair laughing at this. Nice one. :lol:
It would be funny if it weren't so painful:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206786

These devices could be SO useful with a simple programming fix. I have written both Ableton and Akai numerous times, to no avail so far. (I looked at the Python script, and the Mini is derived from the Key-25 so they could ignore the difference in matrix configuration. Somebody should be fired - FIRED - for this idiotic and unnecessary hamstringing of what could be really useful additions for portable musicians. As they are now, they are useless for anyone except beginners who like to move the red box around the screen with the arrow keys by track/scene increment. Totally useless in a real situation, especially if one organizes sets in banks. What the hell is the matrix FOR, f'chrissakes.....

mholloway
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by mholloway » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:50 pm

Buleriachk, you are certifiably insane.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

login
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by login » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:57 pm

Buleriachk wrote:
yur2die4 wrote:When you build your studio with your 10 grand, do not by ANY MEANS get the APC Mini. The thing is a RIP OFF, has Zero clip overview in session mode, and was programmed by idiots (you can tell they are idiots because they can't make such a simple fix)..
Not only that, they didn't implement Session Overview, so you can't use banks (maybe that is what you meant). Same with the APC Key 25. Brilliant hardware units, but programmed by fricken' idiots. I don't know who was responsible, Ableton or Akai, but whoever it was, they should reassign them to their old job as pickup/delivery at the warehouse ....)

LOL you fell

Buleriachk
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Buleriachk » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:31 pm

Of course if your session needs are so simple-minded and limited you only need one bank, you may be delighted with the APC Mini and the APC Key 25.
Last edited by Buleriachk on Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pinkpaint
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by pinkpaint » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:34 pm

Buleriachk wrote:Of course if your session needs are so simple-minded and limited you only need one bank, you may be delighted with these products (the APC Mini and the APC Key 25).
stop trying to hijack this thread buleriachk your drunk

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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Buleriachk » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:37 pm

Hey, I didn't start the discussion of the idiot boxes called the APC Mini and the APC Key 25 in this thread. But if I am called to contribute, I cannot shirk my duty to stand with my brothers .... :)

Especially since yur2die4 seems to have purchased one as well.... :)
yur2die4 wrote:When you build your studio with your 10 grand, do not by ANY MEANS get the APC Mini. The thing is a RIP OFF, has Zero clip overview in session mode, and was programmed by idiots (you can tell they are idiots because they can't make such a simple fix)..
Last edited by Buleriachk on Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TomViolenz
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:41 pm

dented42ford wrote: Really, this "attitude" just makes you come off as an arrogant little brat...

I got news for you, bub,

...and no, "I [just] went to school for this, I'm the proverbial shite" attitude...

to think you have no idea what you are talking about...
way to delurk bub :roll:

Azedex
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Azedex » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:25 am

First of all thanks for the answers, didnt espect so much so fast :D

I had maybe to be little more specific:

I wont be alone building the studio. I meant more then 10k ;) . And we are Artists having both our own Live Acts. I personally like the workflow of Ableton but the possibilities are not the same as in PT.
dented42ford wrote: If it is so serious, then why are you shouting?
Really, this "attitude" just makes you come off as an arrogant little brat...
Sry didnt mean to :?
dented42ford wrote:
Azedex wrote:I'm planning to build a studio with tenthousands of Dollars so we are talking of a serious studio not just a home studio (i got that now).
I got news for you, bub, a lot of "home studio" owners in today's market have a lot more than "tenthousands of Dollars" into their gear. If you are thinking that a "Real, COMMERCIAL STUDIO" can be done for under $100k (starting from not much), you are sorely mistaken. You will be competing with guys like me who have $200k+ into their "home studios", with good [treated] rooms and years of experience...
We already got a lot of money in ours
dented42ford wrote:
My point is, you obviously don't really know what you want. You have been exposed to a lot of !COOL! stuff in school, and now you want it for yourself. You've got yourself a little money, and you want to make a go at a studio. What you really, really need to do is think it out better before making purchase decisions. A good rule of thumb I heard once (from an excellent studio designer) is that you should budget 60% of your initial spend (after premises) on the environment - room treatment, mostly - 15% on your monitors, and the last 25% on "actual gear". If you want to spend 'tenthousands of Dollars' on gear, you better know that you're going to have to spend 'hundredthousands' on the physical studio...
Yep thats why i want to hear your opinion! :)
dented42ford wrote:
Azedex wrote:And NO i don't spend a 100k on Mackie Protocol.
Why in GOD'S NAME would you get one of those? Nuage and the Avid solutions are just better for studio use. This is the kind of comment that leads people like me (ie, those who've been around a while) to think you have no idea what you are talking about...
That why i was "shouting" because all i could find on this subject is that damn Mackie Protocol
Ronin1973 wrote: How do you intend to stretch $10k into a professional studio? Where are you going to build it? In your mom's basement? $10k doesn't even cover the working cap. you'll need just so the place and you will survive for 3 months. No one will book a studio where the owner is busy working his day-job and can't take bookings. What about the rent for the space and the cost of build-out? A professional studio is first and foremost the treatment of the space you will be working in. Control room? Studio? $10k?

Yep... finish school... work for a few years... then go back and read this thread.
Well as i meantioned the costs won't be the problem. I am saving like forever for this. And thank you but i can't wait another 5 years to upgrade my studio. I don't have even place for all my stuff atm
timday wrote:With what you're doing I'd go with Pro Tools or, at a pinch, Nuendo. They're designed for that kind of thing. Ableton was originally performance software and while it has expanded into a DAW it still shows its roots, and they still seem more interested in that side of things, though I find it really useful as a composiiton tool. I like producing in it but then I'm in a home studio and not likely to be buying a fancy desk any time soon (I'd rather spend the money on analogue synths but that's another story). I don't think Ableton even see Pro Tools as a rival. I think they see Maschine and Octatrack and MPC as their main competition.

Point is, most of Ableton's USPs (session view, loads of available performance control surfaces, Max for Live etc) aren't a massive amount of use in a recording studio. Most of PTs USPs (Eucon, Media Composer compatibility, HUI control, intelligent voicing, shuffle mode, spot mode etc) are specifically designed for recording and editing. Unless you actually seriously want Ableton's features I don't see why you'd need it. You might want a copy so when people come in with Ableton sessions you can render out their audio, and if you're already dropping $10K a few hundred extra for Ableton won't break the bank, I guess, but then again you could always ask your clients for rendered wavs or aiffs anyway.
I like composing in it, doing remixes etc, just everything artistical.

PT on the other side is just a machine in Recording Workflow (Nuendo and Reaper as i heared too)
beats me wrote:I can’t imagine this being a good point in history to open a pro recording studio. To increase your odds of making a living at it you should open a studio/restaurant/bowling alley, the trifecta of failsafe businesses.
Well no risk no fun. No seriously, i will have to build a new studio. The question is will i can still use my Ableton in it. Because just building another PT Studio is not worth it as you all know. There are enough out there.
pinkpaint wrote:First of all, the Ableton forum is a great place to ask this question because you are for some parts of your question specifically asking about Ableton. So don't listen to those haters. I myself am close to getting my degree in music production, however I originally began my journey in audio engineering so I can see a lot of where your coming from.

Ableton has always been useful in a recording studio. For both ends of music production and audio engineering. While mainstream engineering schools such as Full Sail don't shed light on Ableton, there are many engineers who do specific tasks in Ableton, such as recording a single track with a lot of sound design (obviously this would go a lot quicker in ableton then bounce into PT). I know people who hate PT elastic audio and come into ableton they do all their warping with their transients to bring everything into the beat and then bounce and bring into PT. I know an engineer who has left PT for Ableton 100% of the work. There are many EDM producers who do their own mixes and masters right after they finish their track in ableton, and these people include the likes of famous EDM icons such as Laidback Luke. think the question in which you are really asking is, will Ableton make any moves to do anything like the avid racks, I would imagine 90% no, but hey if they did I would 99% likely buy it.

Also, as a home studio guy, I can tell you that 10k is not enough to consider yourself a professional recording studio, you couldn't even get the pics required to be a professional recording studio for 10k, tbh. But again I don't know your motives maybe your not doing recording and maybe your just mixing whats sent to you?

Ableton does slightly support EUCON, however EUCON don't work on shit with yosemite so keep that in mind. It is not as powerful as EUCON in PT or even logic however, you can set up a EUCON controller and it can do pans sends mute solo and volume so yeah its not full fledge desk if you got an avid s6 or something dope, even the new artist mix.

Honestly, if your someone who loves ableton like I do, and yet still hope to use protools and love DSP, go with universal audio. they support ableton, logic and pt and a few more daws. However, their plugins are top of the line, if you have a lot of dsp plugins you may not want to go with this route as it is only meant to process UAD dsp. I currently have two universal audio apollo quads with ableton. The UA apollos can be clocked as well.

Again, kinda confused on what your going for here, cause yes ableton is professional and useful NOW in recording and music studios, however if you let me know more specifically what your doing, I would love to help further.
Thank you for your input!

Same as you i like Ableton for exactly those things.
As told before i got more then 10k.
Spending this much i can't plan with "will work" "could work" "mine doesnt work" "mine works" i found those "facts" and their were so unsatisfieing that i posted this :D

Thats the point! How does this audio engineer (which left PT for Ableton) work ?

I will check UADs ty!

Well my personal aim is Mastering (yeahyeah get the flame on :D ), my friend will be focusing on music. One of our goals is it doing Presets libaries and sample libaries (like Vocal Shots etc). But we are open for everything ;)

I hope i could get a little more light in my head and you will give me more input :)

regards!

ps sry for my bad english

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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by login » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:40 am

Buleriachk wrote:Hey, I didn't start the discussion of the idiot boxes called the APC Mini and the APC Key 25 in this thread. But if I am called to contribute, I cannot shirk my duty to stand with my brothers .... :)

Especially since yur2die4 seems to have purchased one as well.... :)
yur2die4 wrote:When you build your studio with your 10 grand, do not by ANY MEANS get the APC Mini. The thing is a RIP OFF, has Zero clip overview in session mode, and was programmed by idiots (you can tell they are idiots because they can't make such a simple fix)..

he was clearly trolling you, and you fell for it.

Buleriachk
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Buleriachk » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:48 am

login wrote:he was clearly trolling you, and you fell for it.
Perhaps; alas my public is often fickle. Nevertheless, I welcomed the opportunity to jump in yet once again. Trollers about this issue are welcome, and I thank both of you for encouraging me to respond to a subject so dear to my heart, so often. I will soldier on whenever and wherever called to do so, until Ableton or Akai fix their Boxes of Limited Vision, even if others are perfectly happy with theirs (and even those that are happy with those they don't own).

And if gives me great joy that you are reading and responding to our messages about this issue (especially in multiple threads), as it is among one of my most cherished duties to continue to inform you of the errors of Akai/Ableton's ways....

I soldier on alone in a lonely world, until called on to respond yet once again... But be of good cheer; I will always be ready to leap into the fray with my rusty intellectual sword .... until the Programmers of Incompetence have been vanquished and the light of Session Overview is at last implemented in the APC Mini and the APC Key 25

:)
Last edited by Buleriachk on Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Azedex
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Azedex » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:36 am

Azedex wrote:
beats me wrote:I can’t imagine this being a good point in history to open a pro recording studio. To increase your odds of making a living at it you should open a studio/restaurant/bowling alley, the trifecta of failsafe businesses.
Well no risk no fun. No seriously, i will have to build a new studio. The question is will i can still use my Ableton in it. Because just building another PT Studio is not worth it as you all know. There are enough out there.

To refrase that properly:

Does it make any sense makeing the extra mile from a professional music studio based on ableton (good control room and live room like each 30 squaremeter) to a professional recording/music studio (meaning bigger live room and bigger digital control unit) on ableton and PT. Or will it just end as a normal PT studio with an Ableton license ?

No consideration of space/location

Hopefully you will get me now :D

regards

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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by Airyck » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:36 pm

I don't think the "quality" of Live should be a concern,
Rather whether or not if fills your needs in operation for the purpose of your studio.

If you're trying to do multi-track recordings of live performers then it may not be the best choice. If you'd like to move away from Pro-Tools, you may consider Cubase instead.

If you're doing music production and trying to do more creative type stuff with the studio then it could be fine. I don't think Ableton Live is really meant to be a traditional studio DAW it's more for creation and performance.

Something like Cubase is great for a professional studio with proper mixing tools, metering, and audio editing as well control room functions etc....
Last edited by Airyck on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 8 /

beats me
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Re: Serious Studio on Ableton - SERIOUS or JOKE ?

Post by beats me » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:54 pm

Azedex wrote:
Azedex wrote:
beats me wrote:I can’t imagine this being a good point in history to open a pro recording studio. To increase your odds of making a living at it you should open a studio/restaurant/bowling alley, the trifecta of failsafe businesses.
Well no risk no fun. No seriously, i will have to build a new studio. The question is will i can still use my Ableton in it. Because just building another PT Studio is not worth it as you all know. There are enough out there.

To refrase that properly:

Does it make any sense makeing the extra mile from a professional music studio based on ableton (good control room and live room like each 30 squaremeter) to a professional recording/music studio (meaning bigger live room and bigger digital control unit) on ableton and PT. Or will it just end as a normal PT studio with an Ableton license ?

No consideration of space/location

Hopefully you will get me now :D

regards


So it sounds like you are trying to separate yourself from the countless PT studios by being Live-centric. The thing is I think the producers that use Live more than any other DAW tend to be home producers who don’t really have the need or possibly money to use a studio outside their own. That or they are mostly electronica. The only producers/artists I really see needing a studio outside their own are those in bands who need to record a whole band of acoustic instruments.

But at any rate, I say go for it. I sometimes find myself pondering things I haven’t accomplished or acquired in life thus far, but I never see my time with music and the mountain of gear I’ve acquired on and off throughout the years as a negative or regret. I never see it as time or money better spent elsewhere.

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