My final words on DJs, composition and artistic merit

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Post by StompyJ » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:16 am

btw mic,

none of my previous comments were directed at you.
no longer needed. this is for you. you know who you are.

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Post by ::mic-minimal:: » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:25 am

no problem stompy, I know we're all passionate about what we do, i think that's all that any of us are trying to say when you break it down.
for the love of Live

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Post by Lowride » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:44 am

It really gets on my goat when people start making personal attacks because someone has a differing opinion. There appears to be an incredible amount of self righteous people on this board...

Lets stick to the facts - ok, in Live5 were getting mp3 support, and flac, and ogg.

All these are are audio formats - big deal - it's all sound.

Were also getting auto warping.

Autowarping surely everyone will appreciate in time once they actually get used to using it.

I thought that using ableton (and any other sequencer for that matter) was all about trying to sculpt some quality music, rather than wasting time doing stuff which doesn't have anything to do with actually making music (eg warping - converting audio files). Surely by Live having this new functionality it is going to make "making music" faster - not necessarily easier. It means we will be spending time creating/mixing music, rather than doing bland uninteresting boring stuff, like converting files to wav.
Or do some people here actually like warping tracks, or converting files??? (I'm not talking about deliberate screwed up warping for effect btw...)

At the end of the day, all these new functions - don't knock em till you've tried em.

I for one am INCREDIBLY dissappointed that Live5 has autowarping, because I feel that all the hard work I've done in the last 3 or 4 months, finally learning how to warp has been wasted.

AYE, RIGHT!!! ;)


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Post by DJRetard » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:19 am

Lowride wrote: There appears to be an incredible amount of self righteous people on this board...

I for one am INCREDIBLY dissappointed that Live5 has autowarping, because I feel that all the hard work I've done in the last 3 or 4 months, finally learning how to warp has been wasted.

AYE, RIGHT!!! ;)

ive only been here a few weeks and it took me a while to spot it, but yeh the self righteous are pretty vocal on this board.

I for one am INCREDIBLY dissappointed that Live5 has autowarping, because I feel that all the hard work I've done in the last 3 or 4 months, finally learning how to warp has been wasted.

I understand what your saying but it was going to happen eventually. But just know you managed to successfully master warping manually which might come in handy in the future :wink:

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Post by Lowride » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:55 am


I think you maybe didn't pick up on my sarcasm man.
The only thing about the auto warp feature, for me anyway, that is dissappointing is the fact that it isn't in Live 4, then it would have saved me the bother.

That said though, I think the warping learning curve is something that is probably handy knowledge which can be applied elsewhere - this is something that the new fledgling Live5 users won't have up their sleeve...


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Post by Sinjin » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:38 pm

-In 5 years time there will be a new crop of superstar DJ's who use Live 7 or whatever with its HUD and eyeball controlled track selection who are unheardof now (probably surfing this forum!) -

I'll let you in on the ground floor, amigo. The name's Sinjin. I'm writing from the future. Live7 is pretty impressive, but the 'pupil pistol' is a bit overrated. If you miss my duel against Oakey and Joe Satriani at Live Aid 4 in 2027,don't worry, it'll be rebroadcast on MTV 20-"the Veinte" and BBC 2. Witness Oakey's valiant attempts -despite senile dementia and arthritis- to mix the ancient art of 'turntablism'- what is now known as 'record-spinny-thinging' with theeven more antiquated acoustic guitar, before being led off stage by MP8J Tiesto. See Satriani lose miserably in the notes-per-second competition to my trusty 'Supamuthagrabbintrigga' plugin. Watch those dinosaurs cry! For the low, low price of 2,000 Republic Credits, you can have my infinitely valuable autographed CD 'Don't blame me, I voted for Autechre' years before everyone else! Don't delay! Act now!

The Hulk
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Post by The Hulk » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:46 pm

So I stopped reading all these replies. But I thought I'd weigh in here. Although I definitely can understand Mbreaks sentiment, I'd rather opt for more features in Live no matter what they are. I've been using Live since V.1 and it's always been the program I could could count on to help me push my ideas the furthest. By adding MP3 beat matching I think it just helps the program become more of a beast and a better tool.

I also think that the more accessible it makes creating music to more folks the better. Hopefully some folks who get into it purely for the MP3 stuff will graduate to generating original content. You've got to start somewhere.
The best, best songs are utterly forgettable.

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Post by Angstrom » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:29 pm

from a crowds point of view :

it's not how you make the music .. it's the music that you make!

and by crowd, I dont mean geeky ugly blokes, I mean girls.

all my old girlfriends thought that the bass player was the lead guitarist, they all had terrible record collections and would dance to any old rubbish (in my over-geeked opinion).
But who says I'm right? apart from me obviously. While us hideously ugly, screen tanned, black wearing techno geeks pontificate about whether Auto Warping will kill of traditional fractal spline warping and what software DJ Butt Monkey uses to get his 303 bass drum, actual punters are focusing on 'is this a good night' and 'I think I might dance now' and 'what is my name' .

Try explaining this "death of DJ" issue to a girl you fancy and then tell me it matters. If the crowds having a good time then it just doesn't, does it?

well I always hated DJs anyway, so it's not as if I care

;) :D :P :lol:


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Post by Hervé » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:42 pm

Have a look at those performers by the way :arrow:


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Post by Hedroom » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:36 pm


I think autowarping's great. Warping is a great big tedious pain in the ass when you could be messing with tracks and doing far more interesting things than pinning down little triangles.

Hey, peoplew have thought computers do the mixing for you for ages. Now we can can put all our time and effort putting the extra icing on the cake instead.

And before anyone moans at me, I use Ableton to produce as well as DJ... and yes, I can play real instruments too.

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Post by Martyn » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:49 pm

Angstrom wrote:from a crowds point of view :

it's not how you make the music .. it's the music that you make!

and by crowd, I dont mean geeky ugly blokes, I mean girls.

It's a good point that one!

He who make the girls come to the party always ends up bringing da boyz too.

Actually, somebody once told me that 33.333 hertz is the resonant frequency of the clitoris. I once played a sine wave of that frequency to a girlfriend and had her touch the speaker cone very lightly with her fingertip. "yep!" she said, "that'd definately do it"

It's not software that needs development now, it's PAs. Get the Bassline down around that number and you've got it made.

NO LOWER though. That's VERY important and could result in a REAL turn off.

Unless you're into poo poo.

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Post by jhs » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:41 pm

All of you haters are in denial. If djing was so no-talent and non-musical then you wouldn't be mentioning it. If you don't like it thats cool. Everything that is "big" is saturated with B.S. The more people into something, the more "dumbasses" pushing their idea. Regarding the comment about anyone with a mp3 collection being able to dj?? Final scratch has been out for years now. Didn't some DJ in Italy get busted playing copyrighted mp3s? I think we all know by now, "Turntablists are an exception, so is Hawtin, so is any other DJ thats good".

I'm not quite sure what the deal is with you anti-dj guys, maybe you feel threatened or something. But personally, I'd rather hear a DJ that plays tunes I wouldn't normally be able to hear for 8 hours than watch a band play 5 songs I've heard before for 45 minutes. I know you started this thread to put in your 2 cents, but seriously bro, if the "artistic merit" of what other "artists" are doing is so important to you, become a full time spectator and judge people for your hobby. Until then, go make some trax for the DJ to play at the club! Go work on a mindblowing live performance. Do some 5.1 work.

point being: if you're bitching about dj's, you're not making beats. get your priorities straight!!

I have been djing on the side for a few years now, its something I REALLY enjoy doing. That is why I dj. Not because of artistic merit. Not to compare myself to other people. I DJ BECAUSE ITS FUN. I LIKE INTRODUCING PEOPLE TO NEW MUSIC. Why is this such a hard concept to understand? Telling me you learned how to beat match in two weeks is like telling me you learned how to input midi notes in 2 minutes. So what? What are you trying to prove? Why do you have a need to voice such a negative opinion towards something a lot of people do with passion?? If I had to choose between production or djing it'd be a TOUGH decision. Just because DJing isn't your thing doesn't mean there needs to be some universal reason. These threads make me bust up laughing. You act like if djing involved more 'artistic merit' then you'd be all about it. Face it, you're not a dj & you dont have any interest in being one, and you can't understand why someone would take pride in doing it because YOU ARE NOT A DJ.

Sorry for the venting, but understand this is on the same level as your local metalhead telling you that electronic music takes no talent because its made with computers!! :roll: Hopefully one day there will be a more even distribution of live sets and dj sets at clubs & parties so you guys stop getting the urge to post pointless threads like this (and this reply!!) and go out and play!!!!!!!!

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Post by Mothieu » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:50 pm

didn't had time to read all anwsers here, just want to say 1 thing;

man, get realistic, in every thing on this world, people are making all things easier and make it so we lose less time,
without this, we would not be like we are now and we could not even make music like we do now.

dont make us sick with your arguments, go with your time, there will always be artists, and they will always be able to do better stuff then before...

get a life, get better!

dont get sick and panic when you see you are not that unique...

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Post by hambone1 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:00 pm

I agree. Why badmouth DJing just because it isn't your thing?

If that's what they choose to do, it's a free world. Just because it isn't "creative" is no reason to poo-poo it. They're exposing people to music they may not otherwise hear.

Just get along, people. Enjoy and love what you do. If you're so close-minded and immature as to not understand that other people have different talents, needs, and desires, vent your frustrations and insecurities elsewhere, or just grow up. It's just counterproductive here. In fact, it's just counterproductive anywhere.

If we were all the same, this world would suck even more than it already does.

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Post by anarchicluv » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:57 pm

This is the inevitably endless argument that I hear waaaaay to much. DJ's are DJ's. Musician's are musician's. Why try to compare the two? It's apple's to PC's, you know? They both serve their own respective functions.


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