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Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:10 am
by mcclaine
Question for those with experience about this: working with both Ableton Push and Maschine Studio controllers.
My question is, how good is Maschine Studio when working as a VST inside Live?

If i have Maschine Studio controller, with Maschine running as a VST inside Live, do i have to make those nasty configurations (setting each group's input and output midi channels, the thru on/off, etc) or does it work as if i have it running in standalone mode?

I've seen lots of videos of people running Maschine as standalone with Maschine Studio controller, and of course, everything is flawless, you load a kit in a group, and a bass in another and everything is already setup for you to start playing.

I already own a Push controller, and i'm having a blast with everything but Maschine software. I know the audiomodder stuff, but i'm planning to use Maschine libraries not just for their drums, but also for its sounds and sampling possibilities.

So, any advice would be very appreciated!

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:36 am
by morgo
ive had maschine for ages and got push about 5 months ago. I've just about found a workflow / way of using them together that works for me - hopefully this will help you out in someway.

I use maschine almost exclusively for drums / sampling, so I have it setup as such. I have the vst on 1 channel, and then 7 audio channels set up to receive audio from channels 2 - 8 of maschine respectively. I have pads 2 to 8 of maschine set up to send to these channels by default (all of this is saved in my ableton template). I do all my drum programming etc in maschine, but this way when it comes to recording and mix down ive got the flexibility of having all my drums on seperate channels. If I end up using more that 8 pads or new groups or whatever I just make new audio channels for them. It takes about 30 seconds to set a new one up.

Then I have push reserved pretty much exclusively for non rhythmical elements. I tried converting to drum racks but it doesnt really make much sense for me, ive been using maschine for drums for about 5 years so I know it inside out, and because I make dubby / stripped back techno I dont really ever need to fundamentally change up my drum patterns. If I do then ill just put a different pattern or scene into maschine and change it that way.

Once ive got a decent loop of stuff setup on push and maschine ill map a few essential controls out to another midi controller (I happen to use a uc33e) and then just hit record and jam / dub out the material for a while. then ill go back through what I have recorded and fine tune that till I have an arrangement that I like. Then i usually practice that arrangement live until I can perform it in one take, and then ill go and do that take.

Once thats done then ill go through and do any fine tuning or adding of any one shot effects or edits I want to do. Ill let that sit for a while and then do any final edits, then a polishing up mixdown, then thats it basically.

I found that if you spend a bit of time setting up maschine with ableton in a way that works for you and then saving that as a template it makes it so much easier... but to be honest its not that complex to set it up project by project, I just like the fact that my brain wont be thinking about it and I can just concentrate on creating.

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:53 pm
by mcclaine
Thanks so much for replying and doing it so much detailed... !

Your set sounds good, and of course, makes sense.
I've never been a fan of doing a template for Ableton to load up automatically, but maybe that could be a good approach.

Another question would be, once you have Ableton set it up like that, do you still have to route each Group inside Maschine for Ableton to receive it?

For example, if i have Ableton as host and Maschine as VST, i open up a blank proyect in Maschine, load a Drum Kit in Group A, and a Pad on Group B, can i start playing in Maschine Studio controller directly, switching from Group A and Group B from the controller, or do i have to set it up because is not running as standalone/host? I don't know if i making sense... do you understand what i'm saying? If i want to use the Chord Sets for the Pad in Group B, will the controller work just like it would as if running in standalone/host mode?

I've seen lots of videos of people using Maschine Studio alone, and it looks awesome, but i'm afraid it would lose some features if i use the controller running as VST with another controller, such as Push.

Thanks again!!

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:08 pm
by yur2die4
I don't route anything. I like to just load up the Maschine and use as-is. I'm more into live tinkering so it works great, I'm not trying to process every single channel into Live or have Live play/record midi clips in or out of Maschine.

Everything inside Maschine functions normal, in fact, if I jam with someone, one person gets Maschine, the other gets Live, it is like having Two perfectly synced groove boxes!

The Only limitation is tempo/play. Maschine's tempo is linked directly to Live... Actually, I'm not sure if since the ver2 update they've made it possible to play Maschine with host not playing?? It's been s commonly requested feature for good reason.

But yeah, it acts the same as loading a drum rack or a vst, it generates all the audio through the channel it is in by default :)

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:16 pm
by mcclaine
Thank you so much for your input... you've been really helpful!
Cheers and keep grooving!

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:39 pm
by morgo
The the maschine controller works exactly the same as it does in standalone mode except the tempo is controlled by ableton. You can set it up now so that if you press play on the maschine hardware it'll start playing ableton. everything (routing / pad & group switching / chord sets everything) is exactly the same as it is when used standalone.. just its synced to ableton and you can easily route audio and midi to and from ableton and or maschine depending on how you want to work.

There are also a host of midi templates both from NI and third party, as well as the editor to create your own that you can freely switch to and from with maschine so you can control other parts of ableton and other plugins etc. its extremely versatile to run maschine with ableton, and with push in there too you get best of both worlds!

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:32 pm
by Feltronc
The biggest pain for me is that Maschine doesn't have a way to bypass scenes and patterns and just have it follow the arrangement of Ableton.
What I do is I'll construct whatever I need within Maschine, and once I have it I'll start individually grabbing each instrument and bounce/dropping it in a new audio track. Unfortunately, most times Ableton will guess the wrong tempo (even though it is the same) and Maschine will bounce the tail of the loop so I have to manually type in the tempo and loop boundaries.

Lately though I've been creating a new stereo track to record the master from Maschine and I'll just live play everything and if needed, I will quantize the audio on the recording and then freeze/flatten.

Not the greatest setup, but it's the one that keeps me moving the fastest so I don't lose my creative flow.

Would love to read more workflows from other people though!

(Own Maschine Studio and Push 2)

Re: Ableton Push and Maschine Studio (as VST)

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:47 am
by Scaper7
I run Push2 alongside Maschine Mk2. I use Maschine exclusively as a drumsynth/sampler sequenced by Push2/Live. I don't use Maschine's internal sequencer at all these days.
Maschine is loaded in a Live drumrack on Track#1 in Live. It receives MIDI from Push2/Live and outputs audio from the drumrack on 16 audio sub channels. All 16 channels are visible/mixable on Push screen with excellent metering and mix control. All other synth tracks run directly in Live.

One of the features I do like about Maschine's sequencer is the hardware swing control, but as I'm not using Maschine's sequencer, I can't use it. As an alternative I've set up a similar swing control within live, with global swing parameter mapped to an external hardware knob. It works much like Maschine's swing knob. The way I work it, swing is globally applied to all tracks and the entire arrangement.

Though it sounds a bit convoluted, it really is the best drum machine step sequencing set up i've ever used ... i just love it. Maschine's drum synths provide such a huge palette of highly tweakable great drum sounds while Push2 is such a brilliant sequencer. Just love having these two controllers working together like this.

I have this entire setup saved as my default set in Live so it's just a matter of opening Live and it's all ready to go.