Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

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Stromkraft
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Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:39 am

Is there any tool you know of out there that can create or convert to an AMS Waveform? Or is Operator the only way to make AMS Waveforms?

What I'd love to do is to take another existing single cycle waveform and import it into Operator. The only tool I've found is the Windows program AMS Factory from 2010 which has a nice big waveform display, but otherwise doesn't seem to do much beyond what Operator does. It also seems incompatible reading or at least displaying current AMS files from Live 8 or 9 Operator and files created with it doesn't seem to play back correctly nor display the partials back in Operator.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:14 pm

I also found AMS generator designed by Robert Henke aka Monolake, but this doesn't do anything beyond Operator either so there's really no reason to use it. He doesn't even list it at his web site even if you can download it, so must be regarded as abandoned.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:25 pm

So I'm really alone being interested in unique waveforms or the solutions are so commonly known it's not worth commenting on? Really?
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TomViolenz
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:33 pm

I use single cycle waveforms in Sampler, but that doesn't help you with your question I guess.

camoz
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by camoz » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:57 pm

i am also interessted in that feature. by the way dont know that i can load waves in operator.
how can i load??

Steve Glen
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Steve Glen » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:24 pm

Keep me posted on what you find.

Angstrom
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:58 pm

I know this isn't what you were asking but if anyone wants to go investigating ...AMS files are text files, if you open one you'll see the format.

for example, here's a not very good pulse/rectangle wave I just made in operator's waveform drawing view.

Code: Select all

AMS 1
Generate MultiCycleFM
BaseFreq 261.625549
RootKey 60
SampleRate 44100
Channels 1
BitsPerSample 32
Volume Auto
Sine   1 1.000000
Sine   2 0.566163
Sine   4 0.251189
Sine   5 0.213507
Sine   7 0.120880
Sine   8 0.111445
Sine   10 0.087333
Sine   11 0.094726
Sine   13 0.068438
Sine   14 0.063096
Sine   16 0.045585
Sine   17 0.045585
Sine   19 0.027994
Sine   20 0.023794
Sine   22 0.021937
Sine   23 0.020225
Sine   25 0.015849
Sine   26 0.012420
Sine   28 0.012420
Sine   29 0.009733
Sine   31 0.007032
Sine   32 0.005080
The first parameters ought to be self-explanatory (sample rate etc.) The ones like "Sine 2 0.566163" is a Sine wave with the harmonic number 2 (the second harmonic) , with a normalised volume of 0.566163


If you are handy with any sort of scripting language you could take those into the graphical environment of your choice and make a fancy interface which spurts out the text files.
Alternatively just try editing text in a text editor and see what you get, then drag your funky AMS into an audio track or into Operator.

---

Edit : thinking a bit more about the OP's question about importing external single cycle waves such as a "moog saw" or similar input wave - what is required is a way to analyse the harmonic content of a sample and convert it to harmonic values like those shown above. The way to do such a thing is of course FFT, which will output the component sine info of your input sample. You could then output that to text for export.
For the other (non-harmonic) metadata like the root key - It's possible to take the loudest harmonic and use that to determine the base pitch.
Last edited by Angstrom on Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:35 pm

TomViolenz wrote:I use single cycle waveforms in Sampler, but that doesn't help you with your question I guess.
Well, Sampler can read AMS files and that is interesting. But my main interest is modulation of waveforms and Sampled waveforms are somewhat in a black box in that regard. Sampler is still one of the main reasons I bought Suite.
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TomViolenz
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:05 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:I use single cycle waveforms in Sampler, but that doesn't help you with your question I guess.
Well, Sampler can read AMS files and that is interesting. But my main interest is modulation of waveforms and Sampled waveforms are somewhat in a black box in that regard. Sampler is still one of the main reasons I bought Suite.
I may be out of my depth here but why is that?!
From what I understand a single cycle waveform (in a high bit depth .wav file) in a sampler behaves exactly like the waveforms in a synth. So modulations and further synthesis (with Samplers oscilator) should lead to the same result as a two oscilator synth. Is that not so?!

Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:34 am

Angstrom wrote:I know this isn't what you were asking but if anyone wants to go investigating ...AMS files are text files, if you open one you'll see the format.

for example, here's a not very good pulse/rectangle wave I just made in operator's waveform drawing view.
Yes, the hard part seems to be to make just the wave you want.

I've tried to get closer to the vintage sawtooth in Z3TA+ 2, but I find it quite hard to make Operator do something closer to that, so I was hoping being able to create an interesting mixed wave outside of Operator and import into it to see how it can sound. It might be I'm more interested in using Operator as a hybrid synth than just FM because I also use FM8, which honestly sounds much better for many types of FM sounds.

I've set up a rack of Z3TA+ 2, Analog 4, Operator, Massive, Analog, Sampler, Razor and Surge. Each synth is set up with as a single sawtooth oscillator as bare as possible and RMS leveled in order to compare these synths on the raw waveform level. It's quite interesting actually. I probably should add Monark as well. OK, I had to add Zebra demo as well.

I actually had to set Shaper to Hard in order for Operator not to sound thin, otherwise filters are wide open or turned off completely.

What can be deducted from such a rack? I don't know but it is indeed interesting that some synths sound great with more or less just the raw waveform, while others really need a great filter active in order to sound decent and will still pale in comparison to the better ones.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:41 am

TomViolenz wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:I use single cycle waveforms in Sampler, but that doesn't help you with your question I guess.
Well, Sampler can read AMS files and that is interesting. But my main interest is modulation of waveforms and Sampled waveforms are somewhat in a black box in that regard. Sampler is still one of the main reasons I bought Suite.
I may be out of my depth here but why is that?!
From what I understand a single cycle waveform (in a high bit depth .wav file) in a sampler behaves exactly like the waveforms in a synth. So modulations and further synthesis (with Samplers oscilator) should lead to the same result as a two oscilator synth. Is that not so?!
Well, I'm very open for learning how to modulate the waveform itself in Sampler better. Like in Operator you modulate one oscillator right into others? in Z3TA+ 2 every oscillator can modulate each other in different ways. It's a quite common concept after all.

In Sampler we have the samples and the Oscillator. The Oscillator can modulate the samples, so that's one, albeit limited, way of doing it. Still great of course, to have.
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TomViolenz
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:17 am

Stromkraft wrote: Well, I'm very open for learning how to modulate the waveform itself in Sampler better. Like in Operator you modulate one oscillator right into others? in Z3TA+ 2 every oscillator can modulate each other in different ways. It's a quite common concept after all.

In Sampler we have the samples and the Oscillator. The Oscillator can modulate the samples, so that's one, albeit limited, way of doing it. Still great of course, to have.
Well isn't that what FM and AM stand for?!
In one case the oscilator modulates the samples amplitude in the other its frequency.
So if the sample is another single cycle waveform (which is important for pitching up and down) it should behave exactly like a two ocillator synth.
And since you can use any waveform you like, I use the Galbanum Architecture Waveforms and arranged their folders as 128s in Sampler, the sounds you can create are pretty much unlimited.
Why do you think that's limited?

Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:03 am

TomViolenz wrote:
Well isn't that what FM and AM stand for?!
In one case the oscilator modulates the samples amplitude in the other its frequency.
So if the sample is another single cycle waveform (which is important for pitching up and down) it should behave exactly like a two ocillator synth.
And since you can use any waveform you like, I use the Galbanum Architecture Waveforms and arranged their folders as 128s in Sampler, the sounds you can create are pretty much unlimited.
Why do you think that's limited?
That's what I said, didn't I? It's limited in the sense that dynamic real time oscillator wave modulation can only be done with 2 oscillators whereas Operator has 4, Z3TA+ 2 has 6, Massive has 3, Zebra has 4 and so on. The upside with putting waveforms into Sampler is that you could take the resulting complex waveform (albeit a static one) from any of other synth and modulate that with pretty much any waveform supported by AMS.

As an instrument, Sampler and sources like the Galbanum Architecture Waveforms are indeed interesting, but currently I'm much into learning about more complex oscillator modulation. Usually people talk about the importance of filters a lot and while they are very important they also need something good to filter. The expressiveness of real time oscillator modulation is also an important aspect as I enjoy the seemingly unpredictable nature of that process (well, once you involve multiple oscillators all modulating each other).
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Create or convert AMS Waveforms outside of Operator?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:28 am

TomViolenz wrote:Ah I see, I thought you meant something more.

8)
I probably did but h*** if I know what it was. Speaking of Sampler I'm using the oscillator to modulate drum samples, especially the attack portion. I certainly love sampling of "real" audio for making unreal unique sounds.
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