How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
fishmonkey
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:37 am

one more thing, you are never going to be able to edit the audio file in both Live and an external editor concurrently and keep both undo histories working. i'm not sure if that is what you are wanting though...
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prprprpr
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by prprprpr » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:56 pm

fishmonkey wrote:one more thing, you are never going to be able to edit the audio file in both Live and an external editor concurrently and keep both undo histories working. i'm not sure if that is what you are wanting though...
no. i don't want that. i want edit an audio wave in audio editor with seperate undo chain and do all other process which doesn't affect audio wave itself on ableton live. that's what i want.

stringtapper
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by stringtapper » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:56 pm

prprprpr wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:one more thing, you are never going to be able to edit the audio file in both Live and an external editor concurrently and keep both undo histories working. i'm not sure if that is what you are wanting though...
no. i don't want that. i want edit an audio wave in audio editor with seperate undo chain and do all other process which doesn't affect audio wave itself on ableton live. that's what i want.
It looks like it's going to depend on the editor. Some editors will not retain undo history once you save the file, which seems like what Live requires in order to update the file.
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fishmonkey
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:08 pm

what editors won't undo after saving?
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

fishmonkey
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:09 pm

prprprpr wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:one more thing, you are never going to be able to edit the audio file in both Live and an external editor concurrently and keep both undo histories working. i'm not sure if that is what you are wanting though...
no. i don't want that. i want edit an audio wave in audio editor with seperate undo chain and do all other process which doesn't affect audio wave itself on ableton live. that's what i want.
well, you can do that now, as long as you use the Edit button in Live.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

stringtapper
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by stringtapper » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:34 am

fishmonkey wrote:what editors won't undo after saving?
DSP-Quattro for one.
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fishmonkey
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:54 am

stringtapper wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:what editors won't undo after saving?
DSP-Quattro for one.
ahh, you are right, no it doesn't. that is a stupid design decision. i bought DSP-Quattro a while back, but it has never really clicked with me so i haven't used it much, the custom GUI also has annoying limitations.

Audition and Fission both do undo after a save though (as do most programs)..
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buckman
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by buckman » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:03 am

HI Guys, just been passed onto this post.

The OP mentioned Jon Hopkins and his working methods with Logic 9 and Sound Forge 4.5

I actually spoke to Jon (as I was a big fan of his) a few years back just as he switched from PC to Mac and started using Logic.

I can't claim credit, but he invited me down to his studio back then to see if we could get this exact issue working as I also always wanted SF on a Mac as an ext editor (PC version before the Mac Sound Forge appeared, and when it did appear on the Mac, seemed to be a complete re-write and different program!)

Anyway, the way he and I did it was Logic on a Mac and Parallels Desktop running Sound Forge 4.5 (from 1999!!) as a VM.

Logic did seem to update the file once refreshed if I remember but the key here was in the 4.5 version of Sound Forge that uses 'direct mode'. This alters the actual waveform on disk without saving so updates the file.
"Direct Mode" was dropped on any versions after with an "undo past save" which was easier and less prone to crash, or lose all your edits as it was precarious - but "undo past save" didn't update the same way!

So my question on here (which I have asked a few times) is can i manually take Ableton arrangement view audio clips 'offline' so they 'force refresh'?
When editing in SF and bouncing back over to play in Ableton, the waveforms and files/sound doesn't refresh even though the files have had their edits all saved?

It seems Ableton still plays the old file, so a force refresh or key command to quickly refresh all audio in arrangement view would cure this. I was told CMD+R but this doesn't work?
I suppose PC users would have the same problem too, if working and editing on an external editor and using Ableton too?

My ideal would be to have a Sound Forge style Editor in Ableton or Reaper or any other DAW, that you can edit directly, and sometimes destructively so that you can clear away, edit, etc files without using another editor with Area Selection like most editors do, but within a multi-track environment.

I think Pro tools is the only one really that lets you do all this from the arrangement view to do detailed editing, while the files are in -situ in the arrangement.

But back to the post - A force refresh in Ableton would be good, as most files don't update when playing back the arrangement after an edit? :(

stringtapper
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by stringtapper » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:54 pm

So clicking the Edit button after making edits—as fishmonkey suggested in this thread—isn't refreshing the file in Live?
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ramona falls
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by ramona falls » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 pm

Hi Folks,

God bless Jon Hopkins for sending us down this rabbit hole together.

My mind was also blown by the idea of having :
1) Ableton arrange the wavs
2) a separate waveform editor with infinite undo affect any given wav, (and everywhere it appears in Ableton, the affect is immediately applied)

I heard through the grapevine that iZotope RX might be a decent way to accomplish the separate waveform editor. Has anybody else enjoyed using iZotope RX in this capacity, and do you have any wisdom / best-practices to share ?

Thanks all!

stringtapper
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Re: How to edit audio outside live while it's still in live?

Post by stringtapper » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:34 pm

RX has been my main audio editor for a few years now.

One thing you will want to do is set up some key commands in the preferences. RX is very flexible with this. I use my own key commands for things like fade ins/outs (I use the ‘<‘ and ‘>’ keys for these) and normalization (‘n’).

RX is one of the most powerful pieces of audio software that exists today. I use it daily both in my day job and my freelancing work. It is very specialized in terms of what it can do. It’s really made for audio restoration and I’m sure there are some features that power user of editors like SoundForge might miss, but for my work it does everything I need as of version 5 (I use RX 7 Advanced now).
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