Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Sun May 31, 2015 5:47 pm

Machinesbroken wrote:classic internet forum flame warrior BS...
young, dumb, numb and full of cum :roll:

Have fun with Live, oh, that's right, you can't! :lol: :lol: :lol:

EVERYONE ELSE IS DUMB BUT ME! WHY DOESN'T MY SYSTEM WORK???? FUCK ABLETON!! MAKE MY SYSTEM STABLE!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

oooooooooooooook slugger :P


Image


I'm having a fine Sunday, thanks for checking in on me *blush*. My Brap-Kat sends his regards!

(Edit: I double-checked the drivers / updated the firmware on the Brap-kat btw... just to be on the safe side)

(Edit x2: The Brap-Kat is not a Logitech)
Last edited by phaded on Sun May 31, 2015 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pasha
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Pasha » Sun May 31, 2015 6:13 pm

Live 9 stable for me although I use a USB spaghetti hub mixed with USB 2 and 3 plus FW Audio.
:D
Apple iMac 2013 / Macbook Late 2012
Live 10 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Sun May 31, 2015 6:24 pm

Pasha wrote:Live 9 stable for me although I use a USB spaghetti hub mixed with USB 2 and 3 plus FW Audio.
:D
Penne is the way. Or at least do Angel Hair if you're going with the stringy stuff breh. Don't forget the salt and to give it a couple of good stirs.

Image


Oh, and congratu-fucking-lations. The 'Ableton Works Awesome for Me' thread is :arrow:

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kitekrazy
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by kitekrazy » Sun May 31, 2015 9:56 pm

mholloway wrote:I've been a beta tester for years. I was an alpha-level tester on version 9.

I can't, and won't, try to speak for anybody / everybody else. But purely in terms of my ongoing experience with Ableton Live, the reality is that it has become an unreliable mess, and doesn't seem to be improving in any notable ways.

I send in regular crash reports. I'm not somebody who wants to be negative, who is eager to cry foul. But this shit is getting ridiculous.

On my system, an iMac / 2.7GHz intel core i5, with 16 gig ram running OS 10.10.3 and Live 9.2b8 (though these problems have been going on for months and months, that's just my current setup), I deal with the following on an absolutely constant basis every time I use Live for any serious project:

1. the entire library resets itself and performs a new scan once or twice a month. Maybe that doesn't sound bad to you. But bear in mind: the scan takes about 2-3 hours to complete, and the majority of my carefully archived "user library" content is unavailable during that time. the library rescan means that basically everything goes blank in my user library, and slowly re-appears as the scan continues. naturally it only happens when Live is open, e.g. when I'm working. I do professional work (my band, video game music, other paid projects) in Live. Imagine sitting down to do a day of paid work, and your entire, meticulously archived user library of FX racks, Instrument Racks and clips - the stuff you draw from constantly when working, organized that way because you need it -- just disappears for three hours.

1b. The library is silly to begin with, and we all know it. The reason I make such extensive use of the user library in the first place (creating an elaborate folder hierarchy to organize all my racks, fx, clips, etc) is because that entire upper portion, the Live library, is an unusable joke. It sorts every goddamn thing into single tabs, e.g. "I want to look for an instrument", well ok, here are four thousand instruments to scroll through. Hope you have a keyword search in mind! If you want your organization system to be entirely founded on keyword searches, then perhaps this library system will work for you. Otherwise, good luck wading through thousands upon thousands (because live tags and adds to this content every time you save anything, and tags poorly, I might add) of arbitrary names trying to find what you want. And guess what, performing a search is the action most likely to cause the library re-scan in point #1 above.

2. I think this is only on Mac, but I've found it corroborated elsewhere online: the dreaded "UNKNOWN FILE ID" pop-up error that occurs, oh, about 70% of the time (sometimes 90%, it ebbs and flows, inexplicably) when you try to save something in the User Library. Think it doesn't matter? It does: most of the time, the file that is saved after you click "ok" in that error pop-up is a corrupted file. If you read my point #1, you know that I save Fx Racks, instruments Racks, and clips of all kinds into the User Library, all the time. Well, that is, I'd LIKE TO, but most of the time dragging something into the User Library results in, yep, "UNKNOWN FILE ID" popping up and I have to delete the screwed up file, and try again...and again... and again....

3. Live crashes. All the time. All. The. Time. It crashes so much I only bother to send about 1 out of 3 crash logs, because, well, I'm still sending multiple crash logs every day I use the program. Sure, a lot of these crashes might be the 'fault' of 3rd party plugins. I'm not fan of bitwig, have no plans to migrate in that direction, but at least those guys figure out a workaround to deal with the reality of crashing 3rd party plugins.

4. I just loaded an admittedly large session. On my not-shabby iMac it took about 10 minutes to get the thing open, and I could hear my HD chugging along the whole time. Other programs (chrome, for example) drastically slowed down to unusable levels during this time. Yeah, I know, I should have a music-only system and not run other programs, but still: this is poor. Maybe If I look deeper into this (and I will) this point is more about my system than Live, admittedly. I don't know yet. I just know it happens on loading large sets and it sucks.


Okay. Thanks, I needed to vent.

lately, for my band, I do composition in Maschine and then export all the sequences as audio to Adobe Audition. it's so nice, because Maschine is FAST (like Live, well, used to be) for creating sequences, and then Audition provides a wealth of audio editing tools (of which Live has implemented exactly zero, save I guess for the ability to reverse an audio file, yee-haw). But for film and video game work, that approach isn't deep enough, and I really really want to keep on using Live for those projects. But I waste too much damn time re: every point above, and I'm starting to look elsewhere. And that makes me sad.

-M
The library has always been a WTF in 9. It's OK if you don't make changes in the folders. The larger the library the larger the database file is in the app data folder. I really don't get why they have Live scan this. Most DAWs don't. You add the folder in the settings and they are there to use right away.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by H20nly » Sun May 31, 2015 10:28 pm

kitekrazy wrote:I really don't get why they have Live scan this.
i'm pretty sure it's just for the indexer so that a search can be performed... and/or so that Push can work with said index. Usually when you just open a folder everything is there but you would have to do a search if there are multiple directories involved. with indexing the search is then limited to the data in the index table, which is *theoretically* more efficient.

mrdelurk
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by mrdelurk » Sun May 31, 2015 10:29 pm

A solution might be if Ableton offered a "sidegrade" Live 9 pricing option for Live 8 users.

I eg. just can't get a liking to V9's file browser, sorry. If that's the future, I'll just keep using V8 forever. But... one can sling a MIDI sequence or a wav audio track back and forth between V8 and V9 for an occasional V9 edit, while doing 99.5% of the work in good old stable V8. So a user could access the new V9 features once in a blue moon if needed without bearing V9's instability and UI full time; not really "upgrading" to V9, more like "sidegrading".

Not sure how Ableton would price this sidegrading use, but it appears a pretty viable alternative to a full-time upgrade. Just my 2 cents.

yur2die4
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by yur2die4 » Sun May 31, 2015 10:54 pm

mrdelurk wrote:A solution might be if Ableton offered a "sidegrade" Live 9 pricing option for Live 8 users.

I eg. just can't get a liking to V9's file browser, sorry. If that's the future, I'll just keep using V8 forever. But... one can sling a MIDI sequence or a wav audio track back and forth between V8 and V9 for an occasional V9 edit, while doing 99.5% of the work in good old stable V8. So a user could access the new V9 features once in a blue moon if needed without bearing V9's instability and UI full time; not really "upgrading" to V9, more like "sidegrading".

Not sure how Ableton would price this sidegrading use, but it appears a pretty viable alternative to a full-time upgrade. Just my 2 cents.
The problem with that is Live 8 not being the current version. There is no point in backtracking. Support for 8 should go about as far as if it's broken, make sure it works, aside from that they can't just keep putting features in an old version when they are trying to sell the current version. There is zero incentive. Not to mention, a lot of headache. Even with incremental updates you can hardly transition projects. If you want something to work in both 9 and 8 ... make it in 7 :P or else just transfer it the way you'd transfer a project to a completely different DAW

H20nly
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by H20nly » Sun May 31, 2015 11:08 pm

yur2die4 wrote:The problem with that is Live 8 not being the current version. There is no point in backtracking.
agreed... but the twisted part about calling Live 8 "the stable version" is all the issues that it had at first. 8 is the new 7 8O :x

mrdelurk
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by mrdelurk » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:33 am

yur2die4 wrote:There is no point in backtracking.
If Live 9 works for you, there is no point.
For me, the words "current version" about anything are just marketing hype. If I were buying Live the first time today, after reading about the V9 issues here, I'd probably go to ebay and get myself a V8 (Save $400 too.) Maybe that's just me.

yur2die4
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:49 am

Yeah, it is available to purchase and it is perfectly fine for a person to buy it, but any new features and updates will always be for the latest version. To expect a project made on a current version to be able to open on a previous version is not very common in audio. I could be completely wrong. I think in MS word/excel etc there is the ability to open newer projects on older versions (often times with a warning that a newer feature won't be supported).

If you expect them to go back one version, why not just expect them to go back to all versions? Save a set in the latest version of 9, and you can open it in 1??

deva
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by deva » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:52 am

mrdelurk wrote:
yur2die4 wrote:There is no point in backtracking.
If Live 9 works for you, there is no point.
For me, the words "current version" about anything are just marketing hype. If I were buying Live the first time today, after reading about the V9 issues here, I'd probably go to ebay and get myself a V8 (Save $400 too.) Maybe that's just me.
When 8 was the current version, there were threads like this as well. With so many users, it is inevitable that some people have problems. For most people, Live 9 is stable enough, they live with the strengths and weaknesses and get on with it... or they use something else.

Go to the forum of any other host, and you will find threads like this (assuming they allow them). The shiny new Bitwig has its share of hair-pulling, cannot get it to work, it is painfully slow type threads.

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:06 am

deva wrote: For most people, Live 9 is stable enough
You know all these people?

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mrdelurk
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by mrdelurk » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:20 am

yur2die4 wrote:If you expect them to go back one version, why not just expect them to go back to all versions? Save a set in the latest version of 9, and you can open it in 1??
If you pull Export Audio (Ctrl-Shift-R on PC) in V9, done deal, you have a WAV or AIFF that V1 can open.
(Or so I think. I only used Live since V3. Can't recall if WAV/AIFF support was present from the outset.)
deva wrote:Go to the forum of any other host, and you will find threads like this (assuming they allow them).
Absolutely. This is why I mentioned this "sidegrade" idea because it's useful with any sort of of program to access the latest features as needed without sweating the latest version's drawbacks full time if there are too many. I think I originally discovered this when dealing with some Windows, at least a decade ago. It worked well with many things since.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:52 am

phaded wrote: oooooooooooooook slugger :P

I'm having a fine Sunday, thanks for checking in on me *blush*. My Brap-Kat sends his regards!
You're saying now that Live is stable? :lol:

trolltastic!

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:22 pm

Machinesbroken wrote:trolltastic!
I think that's the pot calling the kettle black. You're not very good at this. :P

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