Machinesbroken wrote: I'm not saying it isn't and issue that some third party VST or driver needs to be fixed, it could very well be Ableton's fault for sure. If it's Abletons fault that X driver, or Y VST is buggy, it's still a possibility to remove that from your system and use Live. This is the point that I think you're overlooking, something could be done by you to relieve the problem in the mean time if you still want to use Live. Working systems prove it's possible to have a working system.
1) Your story re: the Logitech drivers and the Beat Clock in Ableton really does not inspire confidence. It's more evidence, at least to me, of Ableton's flakiness and instability. Like, really.. that's just batshit crazy. Also, if you were having issues that were causing YOU that much grief, well I would expect you to be MORE empathic towards others currently having issues, not less.
2) You are speculating
about what the problem might
be for other users. You even admit in the above quote that it could
be Ableton's fault. In other words, you really don't know
. You've been basing everything off your little experience with your mouse, and that diminishes the voices of others that have been posting here, period.
3) The topic of this thread... read it. If it doesn't pertain to you, and you're just guessing, then show some respect to the 10+ others that have said they are indeed having issues. I really don't see how this is hard to process.
Its amusing to me that I'm on an 'ego-crusade' with 'war paint' on 'beating my chest' when really I've just been standing my ground this whole thread. To me its much more egotistical to jump in a thread that doesn't pertain to you while assuming none of the participants know what they are doing
For the last time as well: quit assuming that I have done nothing to remedy the problem. I think I've said enough times that I have.
Live 9 has been out for 2 years. Despite the post count, I have been following this forum, and have followed enough in these past two years to know that I'm far from alone in the issues I'm seeing. I think that's plenty of time to gather a formed opinion, don't you? With the number of users that have echoed that sentiment in this thread, my personal opinion in that sense has only solidified.
1. I'm empathetic, if you've been following this forum for years like you say you'll note I generally am a lot less civil with people who call me an idiot or other ad hominum attacks than I have been with you. You're so busy being mad at people that you're not paying much attention to the fact that my 'little story' is about a bad driver that wasn't Ableton's fault
, and that there was no solution beyond isolating it, and using something else for a while.
They did a super solid over stable beat clock implementation, that was more affected by a mouse that was hogging all the bandwidth (and occasionally freezing), not because they did anything wrong. Ableton didn't have anything they could do, Logitech was 100% at fault there. DAWs can and do act differently to bad drivers, plug ins, and hardware.
2. Again, you never address the main point I'm bringing up over and over, Some peoples systems are not hosed, therefore there are ways to tweak your set up to get Live to work. That, is undeniable.
Pointing that out doesn't address blame to ANY driver, VST/AU or to Ableton because I think VERY obviously I would tell you if I knew what was wrong with your system.
3. You have a disconnect here. You don't want help, you 100% think it's Ableton who are at fault, and are upset that I mentioned that using a beta is going to result in bad conclusions when you title a thread "Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess"
There is something different about your system than mine, some driver, plug in or hardware. There's no way around that conclusion.
Even if it's Live, if Live tweaked their audio card spec on Windows for instance and your Echo card driver with this tweak is causing instability as a hypothetical situation, or any number of other ways this can happen, it doesn't matter. What matters is you get a working system right?
Seriously, you have no idea how insane it was for years attempting to set up a computer for a DAW!
I've been in this game for about 20 years now, and at one point we would strip out extensions for the internet, printers, certain graphics, networking, and on and on and on.. just to have a system stable enough to host VSTs that would crash and trash your DAW.... It's actually gotten better, even though it's still a touchy bitch at times, there are still times when a DAW will get hosed by something or another. You're frustrated and angry, and it's not the most fun thing to hear, but what you have done so far to isolate the problems has not been successful, and people with working systems with the same software are proof it's possible to get a working system with Live 9.
So what haven't you done? Here's a list of things that are possible problems/solutions:
1. Third party plug ins- if removing them all from Live solves the problem then you know it's an AU/VST.
If removing them all does solve the problems, then the best method to isolate the errant plug in is to re-instal 1/2 the plug ins at a time.
This speeds up the process of isolating the buggy VST/AU...
2. Audio cards drivers - if using another card or built solve the problems...
3. Controllers, MIDI drivers
4. other Drivers - mouse, keyboard, etc.
5. Other software you run- Some people run additions to the finder, applications that monitor your system etc.
6. Your computer. On Windows at least, I've seen systems that just acted like shit with a particular audio card for no seemingly logical reason.