Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Wed May 20, 2015 5:59 pm

sashazane wrote:I made the mistake of cleaning up my computer, removing unnecessary files and indexing the os to optimize performance.
Of course ableton didn't see the user library any more....I PUSHED COLLECT ALL AND SAVE.... 12.5 hours later, 93% done. Image
And you pointed Live to the User Library in preferences? What state is your project in? Have you managed files? I'm sorry but this sounds like user error to me. At least with the info you have given here.
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mholloway
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by mholloway » Wed May 20, 2015 7:45 pm

misanthrop wrote:
just had the same problem with that "UNKNOWN FILE ID" error.. on my computer the error was caused by the fact that my "user library folder" was in the same forlder like the "ableton 9 library". it disappeared once i copied to a different root:

for example:
D:\Ableton_9_Library and D:\UserLibrary

hope that works for you :-)
My User Library is not located inside the Live 9 library folder, if that's what you are saying (mine are in totally separate locations). The error message comes and goes, I have a feeling you'll get it again if you got it once, despite having moved your folder.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

sashazane
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by sashazane » Wed May 20, 2015 9:56 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
sashazane wrote:I made the mistake of cleaning up my computer, removing unnecessary files and indexing the os to optimize performance.
Of course ableton didn't see the user library any more....I PUSHED COLLECT ALL AND SAVE.... 12.5 hours later, 93% done. Image
And you pointed Live to the User Library in preferences? What state is your project in? Have you managed files? I'm sorry but this sounds like user error to me. At least with the info you have given here.
uhhh... yeah. that's what it was. dohf. hey what can I say, I wanted in on the pile on.

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Thu May 21, 2015 10:42 am

sashazane wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
sashazane wrote:I made the mistake of cleaning up my computer, removing unnecessary files and indexing the os to optimize performance.
Of course ableton didn't see the user library any more....I PUSHED COLLECT ALL AND SAVE.... 12.5 hours later, 93% done. Image
And you pointed Live to the User Library in preferences? What state is your project in? Have you managed files? I'm sorry but this sounds like user error to me. At least with the info you have given here.
uhhh... yeah. that's what it was. dohf. hey what can I say, I wanted in on the pile on.
Well, actually the file handling of Live is a little messy. Once you learn it and accept how this aspect works, there's not much you can't overcome, but it could certainly be restructured in a more user friendly manner. This took me a very long time to master.
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phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Sat May 23, 2015 1:07 pm

There is plenty to learn/master without having to have to account for a fussy DAW. Its just poor coding that hasnt been fixed as of yet, not really any other way to cut it. It can be easy to be empathetic about the intentions of the dev team but it glosses over the fact that they released a *retail* version of their product that STILL isn't fully mature and stable after 2 years. Software that is to be used and depended on by audio professionals, presumably.

To those saying 'well I don't have that problem': well that's nice. Plenty of others obviously do. It's a little insulting to assume the lot of us do not know how run a stable operating system. Or spot a turd for that matter. ;)

To the Ableton support rep: it would be easier to swallow if you popped in and acknowledged that these were ongoing problems that were getting addressed rather than asking for individual feedback. Methinks your team is aware that this is a bigger problem than just the end user. It seems more like trying to quiet the noise than offering reassurances that our voices are heard and that a fix (and some relief) are on the horizon. Let's end the paid beta that has been Live 9 puh-weeeze

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scientist
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by scientist » Sat May 23, 2015 5:49 pm

while live is (mostly) functioning alright for me, i sympathize with the frustrations. i used to actively participate in beta testing and crash reporting but eventually gave up, because as of version 8 (or so) it just feels like everything is falling on deaf ears. there are some ongoing issues - some several versions old - that would never get addressed, and it's unreasonable to expect a customer to continue to submit reports on the same issue for five straight years.

that said, i do feel that ableton support is great. they were able to sort some recent issues i had and were very patient with me being a dumbass.

plopseaw
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by plopseaw » Sat May 23, 2015 7:52 pm

I agree with almost all the points of the original poster and phaed’s comment.

I’am heavily invested in the ableton live/push world both money and time wise. However, at the moment I almost dread opening it and when I’am in Live making anything but small structural changes to my set it kind of creaks along. I ‘am using a modern iMac 27 with 12 Gigs of Ram.

- Live takes ages just to open, sometimes it doesn’t open at all (after 10 minutes waiting) and I need to kill it and start again

- Saving takes ages. Exiting for about 30% of the time leaves Live sitting there beach ball spinning

- I dread pressing the browse button on Push, then I need to wait 1-2 minutes until it actually lets me browse. Its quicker to do it from the mouse

- I dread seeing the Max4Live logo when Ive opened some patch, it increasing my chance of the spinning beach ball and eventual crash

- Its great that Ableton are running constant beta’s but what I see is another X MB download for a few small bug fixes (which I never noticed anyway). The beta’s are not addressing my fundamental issues with live

- Today I did a bench mark of performance in BitWig against live. What shocked me is that as I was duplicating tracks it was instant in Bigwig on the other hand Live spent 1-2 minutes creating each new track. In the end I realized that Bigwig could offer me almost twice the track count. When I looked at the CPU meter (system util) I saw that Bigwig was maxing out my cores but for some reason Live was reporting heavy load but not maxing out the CPU’s and yes my Mac and live configuration are perfectly setup.

- On downloading yet another beta, I received a feedback form and dutifully left my feedback there again. Iam left with the sentiment that Ableton is somewhat looking like they are doing something but actually ignoring the fundamentals. Asking for feedback as long as its not about the basic usability of Live.

I love Live and I’am invested but after something like two years of silence, I’d like to see some sign that at least the fundamentals are going to be really addressed (not just small bug fixing under the guise of a beta). I don’t want new plugin’s, more content just basic workability as a tool for making music.

Still everyones experience may be better or may be better on Windows, I don't know

koranek
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by koranek » Sat May 23, 2015 8:17 pm

I love how when I make a bunch of changes, sometimes things get fixed.

I hate how after I make a bunch of changes and things get fixed, I'm never sure what fixed them.

Long story short, I was having memory problems with Live 32-bit and big Kontakt libraries. But before that I was getting a lot of random crashes, even assigning knobs of a plugin to Push and then sweeping parameters could crash it. I resigned myself to lots of crashes.

Decided to try 64-bit Live because of the RAM issues. Cleaned up my system drive with Disk Warrior, repaired it, cloned it, installed Live 64-bit, installed Jbridge, 64-bit Max. I don't really think I did anything else.

And, it's like a miracle. Every kind of crash I was able to identify and replicate is gone. I keep throwing stuff at Live and it just works.

I'd forgotten how good this could be.
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Nokatus
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Nokatus » Sat May 23, 2015 10:12 pm

mholloway wrote:I do professional work (my band, video game music, other paid projects) in Live. Imagine sitting down to do a day of paid work, and your entire, meticulously archived user library of FX racks, Instrument Racks and clips - the stuff you draw from constantly when working, organized that way because you need it -- just disappears for three hours.
Thank you for this post. Some time ago, I asked about the current state of the browser/indexing, in the notorious "NIGHTMARE" thread. Basically, I wanted to know if it's still this flaky, and your post is a fair warning. I've used Live 8 in exactly the same situation, using it professionally, lots of custom stuff built into racks etc etc, and I've been wary of upgrading to 9 because of the potential trouble in the long run. Seems like it's still a crap shoot.

Oh well, I've used Studio One for most of my music production for quite a while now. Live serves as a sound design platform for me, something to geek out on, building racks and creating new sounds and sequences. Initially, I wrote in the other thread I'm contemplating upgrading to 9, and hah, shortly after that Presonus released Studio One v3 :D. Bought the Pro upgrade, love it, not planning on upgrading Live anymore.

mholloway
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by mholloway » Sun May 24, 2015 6:23 am

Nokatus wrote: Oh well, I've used Studio One for most of my music production for quite a while now. Live serves as a sound design platform for me, something to geek out on, building racks and creating new sounds and sequences. Initially, I wrote in the other thread I'm contemplating upgrading to 9, and hah, shortly after that Presonus released Studio One v3 :D. Bought the Pro upgrade, love it, not planning on upgrading Live anymore.
Amen to that; I just upgraded to Studio One V.3 as well, and man is it lovely!
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Sun May 24, 2015 9:16 pm

plopseaw wrote: - Its great that Ableton are running constant beta’s but what I see is another X MB download for a few small bug fixes (which I never noticed anyway). The beta’s are not addressing my fundamental issues with live
Besides stability, Automation delay compensation is actually the best thing to solve (host-synced ADC hopefully will follow) right now and this is one focus of 9.2beta. I think many will welcome this release. While MFL is a complex issue that needs input from Cycleing74 I hope that is the next main focus, especially on Windows.

The best way to get Ableton to focus on your fundamentals is to request it and suggest to fellow users to join in on requesting. A few voices here and there might not get trough and Ableton are likely to be looking on all responses including support contacts to build their map of user requests. If if one doesn't beta test you can at least join and vote on features. There is a critical mass for everything.

I think it's talking with users and with Ableton constructively or moving on that are the best alternatives. I'm staying as I managed to regain the stability I need.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Sun May 24, 2015 9:41 pm

I'm sorry, I just noticed that you're talking about the Beta Release 9.2.
Makes sense, because I don't find the current release version of 9.1 to be unstable.

The headline should be, "The Ableton Live beta release of 9.2 is an unreliable mess."
Not as dramatic of a headline for sure.

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Sun May 24, 2015 9:48 pm

Machinesworking wrote:I'm sorry, I just noticed that you're talking about the Beta Release 9.2.
Makes sense, because I don't find the current release version of 9.1 to be unstable.

The headline should be, "The Ableton Live beta release of 9.2 is an unreliable mess."
Not as dramatic of a headline for sure.
I only pointed this out on page 1.

There must be multiple reasons why the same release of Live is stable for some and unstable for others. Question is if we can and want to find out? I wish Ableton would find out at any rate.
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phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Sun May 24, 2015 9:49 pm

Stromkraft wrote:I think it's talking with users and with Ableton constructively or moving on that are the best alternatives. I'm staying as I managed to regain the stability I need.
Only thing part about this kindof 'take it or leave it' thing is that its a stinger for those that have laid down a good deal of cash upgrading over the years. I'll agree on the dialogue part, but shouldn't it be a much more transparent two-way street than what it is now? Don't you think they owe the user base that’s put their money down a stable product?

Again, I have to say my personal angst is compounded by seeing the performance of other daws running on the SAME operating system with the SAME hardware specs running the SAME plugins. The (lack of) stability and speed when looking at Ableton in comparison is glaring. If its the end user that’s presumably at fault, or OSX doesn't perform as well as Windows, etc... well, those same issues should be across all DAWs, right?

That's absolutely not the case. Have yet to see a spinning wheel / hourglass when adding a track in anything but Ableton. Project loads, CPU usage, you name it.

But as much as it's on the table for me personally (switching DAWs), the answer is NOT 'well, don't let the door hit you on the way out'. It's just not acting in good faith to continue to roll out a product line that has glaring issues and pretend they don't exist. Again, I just hope they nail 9.2.

fwiw I'm venting here again because I've been working in Reason, Reaper and Ableton today at different times. Guess which one has 6 crashes-ish (so far)

:roll:

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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Sun May 24, 2015 11:06 pm

Stromkraft wrote: There must be multiple reasons why the same release of Live is stable for some and unstable for others. Question is if we can and want to find out? I wish Ableton would find out at any rate.

Beta releases are unstable. A stable beta is a release candidate.
I suppose you could be upset that a beta wasn't called an alpha? but to knock the software over the beta version?
I lost the point of this thread?

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