Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 12:20 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: There must be multiple reasons why the same release of Live is stable for some and unstable for others. Question is if we can and want to find out? I wish Ableton would find out at any rate.

Beta releases are unstable. A stable beta is a release candidate.
I suppose you could be upset that a beta wasn't called an alpha? but to knock the software over the beta version?
I lost the point of this thread?
I'm personally talking about alpha (supposedly stable releases) being buggy as shit. I think the OP (correct me if I'm wrong) has problems as well with alpha releases, he is just lamenting the fact that during the current beta it does not seem like some of those big issues are truly being addressed aside from proper PDC. Again, issues that have been ongoing since the release of Live 9 for many.

When I have referenced 'paid beta' in this thread (if that is causing confusion) its referring to Live 9 putting out a product 2 years ago that was not ready for prime-time. Thus whomever put their money down for an upgrade or bought it outright cout consider themselves as paying for a 2-year (and counting) beta while things get (hopefully) fixed.

In sum, this be some bullshit. :lol:

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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Mon May 25, 2015 12:31 am

phaded wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: Beta releases are unstable. A stable beta is a release candidate.
I suppose you could be upset that a beta wasn't called an alpha? but to knock the software over the beta version?
I lost the point of this thread?
I'm personally talking about alpha (supposedly stable releases) being buggy as shit. I think the OP (correct me if I'm wrong) has problems as well with alpha releases, he is just lamenting the fact that during the current beta it does not seem like some of those big issues are truly being addressed aside from proper PDC. Again, issues that have been ongoing since the release of Live 9 for many.

When I have referenced 'paid beta' in this thread (if that is causing confusion) its referring to Live 9 putting out a product 2 years ago that was not ready for prime-time. Thus whomever put their money down for an upgrade or bought it outright cout consider themselves as paying for a 2-year (and counting) beta while things get (hopefully) fixed.

In sum, this be some bullshit. :lol:
Alpha is regretably backwards of every other definition of the term in software developer, it means a pre-beta phase not post-beta.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_r ... life_cycle

I'm just not that interested in knocking beta releases, or .0 releases for that matter. Every single piece of software I've ever used of any complexity has had some bugs in the .0 release.
I'm not saying that Live 8 for instance wasn't buggy for far too long, but the only DAW I know of that has been rock stable forever is Reason, and it's progress towards becoming a full fledged DAW couldn't even be called glacial! :lol:

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 12:37 am

Fair play on my misunderstanding of Alpha.

But point here is 9.0-9.18 has been a circus. Come on now.

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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Mon May 25, 2015 1:42 am

9.18 is working fine on my system. I have 167 AU's in the components folder for what it's worth.
A few complete packages: Ohm, NI, Nomad, AAS, but still 167. I lost interest in beta testing when Ableton released 8.0 in a (for what was on my system) buggy mess. Better to wait a bit and use the software when it's stable. I bought the upgrade to Live 9 this last June. It had been out for for about a year when I did. That's my advise to anyone really these days, don't count on the latest version of your DAW to be stable in a .0 release, and recognize that even the most stable DAW probably has a couple bugs, these might be bugs that piss you off. In that case, have a back up DAW.

Until Bitwig does MTC or Rewire it's not an option to me, and I don't need another old school DAW, DP8 is working just great.
I guess that could be why I'm not that mad at Ableton, things I want to do with the software are working, MTP is working, the time stretch algorithms are great, and it loops audio well. Clip firing is great etc. Also, Novation finally got a great relationship with Live in the later releases, so Racks and the like really work. the Mixer and plug ins show up in the Remote. Push does the drum machine routine like no other, (why I'm using MTC, to slave Live to DP as a drum machine), in general it's all way better than anytime before.

Beta versions are something I'll play around with, but I've made the mistake of writing songs in beta versions and being beyond pissed that the bugs kill the workflow etc. Self defeating IMO.

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 1:44 am

Machinesworking wrote:9.18 is working fine on my system. I have 167 AU's in the components folder for what it's worth.
A few complete packages: Ohm, NI, Nomad, AAS, but still 167. I lost interest in beta testing when Ableton released 8.0 in a (for what was on my system) buggy mess. Better to wait a bit and use the software when it's stable. I bought the upgrade to Live 9 this last June. It had been out for for about a year when I did. That's my advise to anyone really these days, don't count on the latest version of your DAW to be stable in a .0 release, and recognize that even the most stable DAW probably has a couple bugs, these might be bugs that piss you off. In that case, have a back up DAW.

Until Bitwig does MTC or Rewire it's not an option to me, and I don't need another old school DAW, DP8 is working just great.
I guess that could be why I'm not that mad at Ableton, things I want to do with the software are working, MTP is working, the time stretch algorithms are great, and it loops audio well. Clip firing is great etc. Also, Novation finally got a great relationship with Live in the later releases, so Racks and the like really work. the Mixer and plug ins show up in the Remote. Push does the drum machine routine like no other, (why I'm using MTC, to slave Live to DP as a drum machine), in general it's all way better than anytime before.

Beta versions are something I'll play around with, but I've made the mistake of writing songs in beta versions and being beyond pissed that the bugs kill the workflow etc. Self defeating IMO.
:|

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phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 1:54 am

phaded wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:9.18 is working fine on my system. I have 167 AU's in the components folder for what it's worth.
A few complete packages: Ohm, NI, Nomad, AAS, but still 167. I lost interest in beta testing when Ableton released 8.0 in a (for what was on my system) buggy mess. Better to wait a bit and use the software when it's stable. I bought the upgrade to Live 9 this last June. It had been out for for about a year when I did. That's my advise to anyone really these days, don't count on the latest version of your DAW to be stable in a .0 release, and recognize that even the most stable DAW probably has a couple bugs, these might be bugs that piss you off. In that case, have a back up DAW.

Until Bitwig does MTC or Rewire it's not an option to me, and I don't need another old school DAW, DP8 is working just great.
I guess that could be why I'm not that mad at Ableton, things I want to do with the software are working, MTP is working, the time stretch algorithms are great, and it loops audio well. Clip firing is great etc. Also, Novation finally got a great relationship with Live in the later releases, so Racks and the like really work. the Mixer and plug ins show up in the Remote. Push does the drum machine routine like no other, (why I'm using MTC, to slave Live to DP as a drum machine), in general it's all way better than anytime before.

Beta versions are something I'll play around with, but I've made the mistake of writing songs in beta versions and being beyond pissed that the bugs kill the workflow etc. Self defeating IMO.
:|
1- I'm happy that Ableton is working for you.

2- This thread might not be for you if that's the case.

3- there are plenty of people who are not you that ARE having problems

4- this thread is about the users in point #3

5- the users referred to in point #3 are having issues with the released (NOT BETA) versions of Ableton and have been for quite some time and thus the creation of this thread

6- If this is not you, congratulations once again. Pop a cold one and start again from the top

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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Mon May 25, 2015 3:03 am

phaded wrote: 5- the users referred to in point #3 are having issues with the released (NOT BETA) versions of Ableton and have been for quite some time and thus the creation of this thread
Uhmm, no.

Mholloway is complaining about bugs in a BETA.

That, was the point I was making, that if you want any level of coherence to information on problems in Live, the beta and the release versions should be thought of as separate programs.
In this case the beta brings new features that create their own problems, their own bugs. Quite honestly since Ableton can't seem to keep separate versions on the same computer without some overwriting of the old versions dependancies it's even more of a good idea in my mind to avoid betas.

MOTU don't release public betas of DP they have a paid, or at least heavily product bonus given, private beta team. Probably because this sort of thing happens, and honestly why would you want to work for free for Ableton? No offense to them but two million copies sold says they aren't hurting any.

Look, I hate buggy software, that's why I don't use betas that often, and I'm sorry you're having problems, that sucks, but shouldn't your issues be in a thread relating to a final released version?
Otherwise, how are you or anyone else going to know what is a Live issue and what is a beta, third party driver, or VST issue?

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Mon May 25, 2015 3:36 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Beta versions are something I'll play around with, but I've made the mistake of writing songs in beta versions and being beyond pissed that the bugs kill the workflow etc. Self defeating IMO.

I've been using betas since may 2014, I think, moving some project between the those and the current release and while the earliest versions were quite unstable sometimes, I was surprised how well they worked. The 9.1 versions especially have been very workable to me. That said, you can't whine much if the beta version causes some new issues you didn't see coming. Better stay with the releases and skip the .0 version. Also I have had issues, but in most cases it turned out it wasn't Live, but something I did or didn't do. In a few cases there were bugs that I reported. A few of them got fixed in releases or got the attention of the support/developers. The main problem with reporting bugs is making it repeatable.

Of course it's no fun, when your issue isn't addressed in the beta. What can you do?
Make some music!

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Mon May 25, 2015 4:24 am

Well the most logical thing to do is have a back up plan. Mhalloway apparently has Studio One, I have Digital Performer, for some it's Bitwig or Cubase. To me anyway, it was kind of a drag when Live matured enough as a DAW to where people were wanting DAW features in it. Coming from Logic I really liked the live performance parts in Live. I love DP, but Live still offers a better performance set up, so anytime Live is buggy I use DP, visa versa of course, but DP is almost as glacial as Reason, so it's generally stable.

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Mon May 25, 2015 5:18 am

Machinesworking wrote:DP is almost as glacial as Reason, so it's generally stable.
"Glacial" is stable? OK. The only fallback I might have is some hardware and a desk. I'd rather not go there as I've been there. Good limitations I guess.
Make some music!

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 12:29 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
phaded wrote: 5- the users referred to in point #3 are having issues with the released (NOT BETA) versions of Ableton and have been for quite some time and thus the creation of this thread
Uhmm, no.

Mholloway is complaining about bugs in a BETA.

That, was the point I was making, that if you want any level of coherence to information on problems in Live, the beta and the release versions should be thought of as separate programs.
In this case the beta brings new features that create their own problems, their own bugs. Quite honestly since Ableton can't seem to keep separate versions on the same computer without some overwriting of the old versions dependancies it's even more of a good idea in my mind to avoid betas.

MOTU don't release public betas of DP they have a paid, or at least heavily product bonus given, private beta team. Probably because this sort of thing happens, and honestly why would you want to work for free for Ableton? No offense to them but two million copies sold says they aren't hurting any.

Look, I hate buggy software, that's why I don't use betas that often, and I'm sorry you're having problems, that sucks, but shouldn't your issues be in a thread relating to a final released version?
Otherwise, how are you or anyone else going to know what is a Live issue and what is a beta, third party driver, or VST issue?
:|

Um. No.

THE PROBLEMS THAT HE LISTED OFF SOUNDED LIKE THE SAME ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN ONGOING IN EVERY NON BETA (STABLE) RELEASE OF LIVE 9.0 THROUGH NOW.

I'm personally not talking about beta, for the 45776547?th time. Also YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXCLUSIVELY USE A BETA VERSION of software if you're a beta tester, in case you didn't know.

Sorry for the caps but it seems a few just are reading what they want to read.

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phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 1:07 pm

Also- the TOPIC of this thread is

"Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess."

NOT

"Ableton Live's BETA has become an unreliable mess."

If it was the latter, we could all have a chuckle and be on our way.

It's not the latter. Ableton Live HAS become an unreliable mess. If this does not pertain to you, please don't insist that the problem doesn't exist.

Let's take this lovely scenario yesterday:

1) New project, perhaps 5 tracks loaded. NO VSTS.
2) I click Option-T a couple of times to add a couple of tracks
3) Spinning wheel / Live dies

There is no rhyme or reason to it. It's just bloody unstable. I can pull up Reaper or Reason on this same machine and add tracks ad infinitum w/o this type of behavior. There are times were Live crashes with an empty project open on exit.

Also the desktop's a dedicated (i.e. stays off the internet, nothing but audio apps), cleanly installed system. It's 2 x 2.66 Quad core, 16GB Ram, separate dedicated Solid State Drives for system, projects and samples, so don't go there.

I'm in the 'repeating myself' stage of this thread. Ableton apologists with stable systems: have at it from here on out. I've got studio work to do. Hopefully we can do better than yesterdays crash count :lol:

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mmorgan
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by mmorgan » Mon May 25, 2015 1:10 pm

phaded wrote: Sorry for the caps but it seems a few just are reading what they want to read.
That seems to happen a lot on internet forums. :|
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phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Mon May 25, 2015 1:12 pm

mmorgan wrote:
phaded wrote: Sorry for the caps but it seems a few just are reading what they want to read.
That seems to happen a lot on internet forums. :|
amen

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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Machinesworking » Mon May 25, 2015 4:15 pm

phaded wrote: THE PROBLEMS THAT HE LISTED OFF SOUNDED LIKE THE SAME ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN ONGOING IN EVERY NON BETA (STABLE) RELEASE OF LIVE 9.0 THROUGH NOW.

I'm personally not talking about beta, for the 45776547?th time. Also YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXCLUSIVELY USE A BETA VERSION of software if you're a beta tester, in case you didn't know.
and it's 100%? You have every problem Mholloway listed?
For the record he flatly stated his current system was:
mholloway wrote: On my system, an iMac / 2.7GHz intel core i5, with 16 gig ram running OS 10.10.3 and Live 9.2b8
Since I'm not experiencing problems I have no fucking idea which bugs are in the beta and which problems are in the current release version?


I don't get why you have an issue with me pointing out that mixing beta issues and released version issues is a bad idea? Anytime Ableton gets people reporting on bugs that don't exist in a version that's extra time chasing ghosts for programmers, and hearsay is a huge problem. If you can't see why that's a problem then I'm sorry, but you're never going to be very happy with any software ever of any complexity.

By all means rant about Live, but if all you're going to do is say "LIVE ARE UNSTABLE! IT DON"T MATTER IF BETA OR NOT", and I'm not using the beta on a stable system, you tell me nothing.

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