Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Tue May 26, 2015 9:24 pm

H20nly wrote:
phaded wrote:
H20nly wrote:^ I'm pretty sure Ableton themselves have said that.
Have you any idea how many different versions of Live that a dev for any DSP, be it Max or 3rd party, must have on their system? :lol:

The only problem in OSX-land is that you have to rename the install so they don't get overwritten. In Windows (at least last I used it- its been a few years) it just installs to a different directory. I've kept legacy installs in the past while making sure an upgrade is stable. And furthermore- never been a problem prior to Live 9, why would this be the root of problems that have been reported non-stop since Live 9 was released?
The Devs who's systems you're so intimate with may have final versions installed (on one drive or another), but M. Holloway has multiple beta and alpha versions installed on his, hence the comment that I directed at him. I would tell you that this is different, but you're such an expert on other people's systems and code, I'm surprised you haven't resolved this for Ableton yet all on your own... so don't let me distract your rant with my rationale and empathy for the OP.



For your reading enjoyment http://www.ableton.com/en/help/article/ ... ths-facts/

tldr version;
Can I install the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Live at the same time?

It is possible and there are no technical issues to be expected by having different Live versions installed at the same time, but to keep things simple, we don't recommend such a setup. Please note that you will need to manually rename the application after the first installation (Mac) or choose a different installation folder (PC).
I'm sure the plugin Devs wrote their code to deal with application files in renamed folders, right?
My beef with the focus on MHolloways multiple versions that it takes away from the half dozen plus others that have chimed in stating they have the same issues. And honestly, it just seems like another cop-out to not acknowledge the pink elephant.

Your sarcasm is cute, but point to some actual substance to the claim that the different versions could be fault. Something other than the loose "suggestion" that you linked to. Tell me why or show me a thread where that was the root of the problem. Otherwise its just pulling flowers out of your ass tbh. Its a guess, and it glosses over many other salient points in this thread.

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phaded
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:00 pm

Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Tue May 26, 2015 9:44 pm


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H20nly
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by H20nly » Tue May 26, 2015 9:51 pm

You're the one who unleashed your wrath upon my response to someone's question. Ableton said it... You quoted my response and went to town on me as though I'm a bad person... I didn't make it up, so I dug the link out. Done

As far as other system folders on multiple installs go, I stand by my concern for that method.
Let's say you have install A, install B, and install C
Install C is current
You launch the app and somewhere in the current set is a plugin or something else that points to an install B executable... It's launched alongside of install C using its version for some other purpose. Then install A's version gets involved because an old set or rack references that one but the problem here is three processes from 3 sources are running from 3 locations and the host application thinks it manages those via install C and only install C. When it has to decide which one wins, you get a hung app.

I know, I know you think that's crazy and bunch of horeseshit. I don't give a fuck. I addressed my post to Stromkraft and M. Holloway and you latched on. You're beyond help. You want a blowjob and an apology letter from Ableton and I can't assist you with that. Good luck on your future endeavors.

plopseaw
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by plopseaw » Tue May 26, 2015 9:54 pm

Phaded and Bwax Iam in agreement with you, To me it seems that with Live we are not suffering with ‘bugs’ or config problems but design and coding issues which must run deep in Live.

In the end I downloaded a copy of Bitwig and demoed that months ago. What I found was a different story i.e. it works really very well. However, I stayed Live because I have much time and money invested.

I don’t think Live can match that experience without a rewrite. I think that Live will never match the linear sequencer of Bitwig without a rewrite (and I realized with Bigwig how much I had missed a real linear editor). I realized also that I was using M4L just to patch up the missing parts in Live (esp. for Push) and that Reaktor was by far more creative. I also realized how long we had to wait for clip automation which is already there in Bitwig as a newcomer (and perhaps only in Live because Bitwig did it)

If they do rewrite it and put it out tomorrow there would of course be an extensive beta testing round and the usual development curve over years. So Sunday I couldn’t bear starting a session in the studio and being brought out of my creative mood by spinning beach balls and crashes. So I bought a license for Bitwig and couldn’t be happier. If Live and Ableton ever gets back on it feet again, I’ll come back to it but thats a maybe.

phaded
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:00 pm

Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Tue May 26, 2015 9:57 pm

H20nly wrote:Good luck on your future endeavors.
Yes, you're right, it does sound like horseshit. I was too kind by calling it 'pulling flowers out of your ass'.

Good luck too with said horseshit/flowers. Godspeed to you my son.

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Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue May 26, 2015 10:10 pm

phaded wrote:BLAH
Simply put you're contributing to the problems already there. You're not part of the solution for anything so not worth my time. I'll instead listen to people that may share both some of your your experiences and may agree with some of your points and can present them with some manner of intellectual effort. Something you simply can't or won't do.
Make some music!

phaded
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Tue May 26, 2015 10:13 pm

plopseaw wrote: I realized also that I was using M4L just to patch up the missing parts in Live
This. All day.

It's not asking Ableton to kow-tow to its user base by requesting they get their shit together, people. If they feel like they have given everyone proper value with the Live 9 experience? Disappointing but that's on them.

I will say personally when they rolled out the promo for Live 9, it was a no-brainer for me at the time to not only upgrade, but pick up Suite as well. If I were given that option now in hindsight? Heh. Yea draw your conclusions.

I definitely agree with the sentiments of Plopseaw: that it's a stretch to expect apples-to-apples w/ Bitwig. But Ableton can do much, much, better than this I would like to think. It's not even the feature-set, per se, that has me looking with longing eyes. I just want a solid, responsive workflow so the focus is on the music. I version the piss out of my projects just because I'm not sure if the next track addition/removal/move is going to signal another crash.

For the record, I'm very fond of blowjobs. But if Live once again proves reliable, I'm a happy customer, simple as that.

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Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue May 26, 2015 10:19 pm

H20nly wrote:^ I'm pretty sure Ableton themselves have said that.
I seriously doubt this with multiple versions on the same system is a real issue, but stranger findings have seen the light so who knows until they try?

It could be an issue if you referring to the libraries in other versions and there is some kind of problem hidden in these. I have 9.1.7, 9.1.8 as well 9.2beta both 32bit and 64bit installed.
Make some music!

plopseaw
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by plopseaw » Tue May 26, 2015 10:24 pm

phaded wrote: I just want a solid, responsive workflow so the focus is on the music.
Ableton seem to have lost this somewhere along the way.

Stromkraft, I don't want your time or attention, you're not from Ableton so you sure can't fix this problem only Ableton can.

phaded
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:00 pm

Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Tue May 26, 2015 10:25 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
phaded wrote:BLAH
Simply put you're contributing to the problems already there. You're not part of the solution for anything so not worth my time. I'll instead listen to people that may share both some of your your experiences and may agree with some of your points and can present them with some manner of intellectual effort. Something you simply can't or won't do.
It's amazing how you can't answer or acknowledge some very valid questions made, but are so quick to offer whack-a-mole tech support. When all else fails? Get your panties in a bunch. I really could care less.

xo

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Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue May 26, 2015 11:04 pm

phaded wrote: It's amazing how you can't answer or acknowledge some very valid questions made, but are so quick to offer whack-a-mole tech support. When all else fails? Get your panties in a bunch. I really could care less.
Exactly!
I'll discuss and answer some valid questions from people that are actually interested in solving problems rather than promoting their own private ego-crusade. I'm not saying you don't have any valid points, just that as you're not interested in getting anywhere there's no point attempting a discussion with you. I'm sure others with issues will do a much better representation.
Make some music!

phaded
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:00 pm

Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Tue May 26, 2015 11:13 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
phaded wrote: It's amazing how you can't answer or acknowledge some very valid questions made, but are so quick to offer whack-a-mole tech support. When all else fails? Get your panties in a bunch. I really could care less.
Exactly!
I'll discuss and answer some valid questions from people that are actually interested in solving problems rather than promoting their own private ego-crusade. I'm not saying you don't have any valid points, just that as you're not interested in getting anywhere there's no point attempting a discussion with you. I'm sure others with issues will do a much better representation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYj2hex99gY

You ever think that mayyyyybe your whack-a-mole support was never solicited in the first place?

xoxox

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Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue May 26, 2015 11:25 pm

bwax wrote:
I could forgive a lot of bugs, poor coding, and instability, if Ableton simply acknowledged what is going on and reassured us they are making efforts to fix it.…

If Ableton knows the answer to such issues, release a patch, release an announcement, tell us to go away, something!
I agree with this. But why wish when we can do something together?
I suggest that each of us that wants solutions go and write a clear, focused, well-worded and polite message* to Ableton support describing one or a few of your more important pet peeves that you feel should be solved by now. If you already have started a communication, of course refer to this and stress that you really need them to solve the problem ASAP.

Another thing you can do is to create a poll discussion for each important issue in Feature Wishlist where we can both share methods how to reliably reproduce issues, workaround them as well as vote, so Ableton can see also there that many of us have certain problems.

Anyone can whine in forums. People of many different music software products have been doing that for a very long time. I've done it and so have you most likely. It's an understandable but tired approach. You can choose to be part of the solution instead of just hoping again that the next software company will save you (you can do both obviously).




*because it's the most effective
Make some music!

phaded
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:00 pm

Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by phaded » Wed May 27, 2015 12:15 am

Stromkraft wrote:I agree with this. But why wish when we can do something together?
Well first, it's not our responsibility. We are paying customers. The onus should be on the company to establish a working dialogue with the customer base. We shouldn't have to beg for this. As stated before in this thread, Ableton has taken the polar opposite approach
Stromkraft wrote:Another thing you can do is to create a poll discussion for each important issue in Feature Wishlist where we can both share methods how to reliably reproduce issues, workaround them as well as vote, so Ableton can see also there that many of us have certain problems.
Do you not think this has been done? Several. Times. Over. LOOK AT THE FORUM FFS.

Besides, none of that matters if the dev team is turning a blind eye or not acknowledging the posts, now does it?
Stromkraft wrote:Anyone can whine in forums.
Again, go stuff a sock in it. People put their money down on this software, they have the right to express themselves as they please. Since there is seemingly no end in sight to the bugfixes, what else is there to do but to get on the freaking Ableton Forum to post your experiences and vent?

And really you can squarely fuck off for calling it 'whining'. Who the hell are you anyway? No one asked for your damn input, the issues in this thread don't pertain to you. What gives? Show some damn respect and let people with valid concerns express themselves already. Are you on the Ableton dev team? No? Then what the hell do you really have to offer that we should pay attention to? Quit posting here and go finish a tune or something.
Stromkraft wrote:*because it's the most effective
LOL

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H20nly
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Re: Ableton Live has become an unreliable mess.

Post by H20nly » Wed May 27, 2015 1:29 am

keep gong, you've almost got it fixed!

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