VSTi advice

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
Harry1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:32 pm

VSTi advice

Post by Harry1 » Wed May 20, 2015 2:53 pm

Some time ago I upgraded from Live 8 standard to Live 9 suite.
Especially to get all the instruments.
With the intention to go "complete virtual".

In the past, with Live 8, I used hardware instruments like a Roland JP-8000, Roland TD-7 (drums) and Yamaha CS2X and I didn't use virtual instruments at all.
But.... now, some songs further, I must conclude that the hardware versions of my songs sound much beter.
There are hardly any good sounding presets for all the build-in instruments.
In my experience everything sounds dull, thin, not sparkling and with little expression and dynamic.

What am I doing wrong?
Or, can you advice me a VSTi(s) that will fulfill my needs?

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: VSTi advice

Post by Stromkraft » Wed May 20, 2015 3:21 pm

Harry1 wrote:Some time ago I upgraded from Live 8 standard to Live 9 suite.
Especially to get all the instruments.
With the intention to go "complete virtual".

In the past, with Live 8, I used hardware instruments like a Roland JP-8000, Roland TD-7 (drums) and Yamaha CS2X and I didn't use virtual instruments at all.
But.... now, some songs further, I must conclude that the hardware versions of my songs sound much beter.
There are hardly any good sounding presets for all the build-in instruments.
In my experience everything sounds dull, thin, not sparkling and with little expression and dynamic.

What am I doing wrong?
Or, can you advice me a VSTi(s) that will fulfill my needs?
I don't care much for the Live instruments even if i had great hopes when I got Suite. I feel the more odd ones like Tension and Collision are potentially the most useful, but the presets are not showing off the Live instruments to their best unfortunately.

You can make great sounding presets on some of them if you learn them from the ground up. One tip I can give you for Operator is to use Hard on the Filter Shaper. That fattens up the patches I've done in that. Still pales in comparisons though. In general you could benefit from thinking of the Live instruments and effects as building blocks for your own sounds. One of the better teachers for this approach is Tom Cosm that I appreciate even as I only really use drum racks and Sampler currently.

I have access to the Trident and Analog 4 as well as the Juno-60 in the studio. The only VSTi that makes me respond emotionally in a similar way is the Z3TA+ 2. I'm also growing fonder and fonder of Massive every week. As I use Native Instruments Komplete there are more to love, but time is limited.
Make some music!

Harry1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:32 pm

Re: VSTi advice

Post by Harry1 » Wed May 20, 2015 5:08 pm

Many thanks for this well cared answer.
Stromkraft wrote: ....but the presets are not showing off the Live instruments to their best unfortunately.

You can make great sounding presets on some of them if you learn them from the ground up.
I don't have that much self-confidence that make me think I can do it better than the developers...
By the way, I can make great sounds on my JP-8000 but hey.... It also got great sounding factory presets.
(Maybe just to show it's potential)
Stromkraft wrote: ....The only VSTi that makes me respond emotionally in a similar way is the Z3TA+ 2.
Thanks again. I am google'ing for several days but this one hasn't pass by.

login
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: VSTi advice

Post by login » Wed May 20, 2015 7:00 pm

Check out u-he synths (diva, hive, bazille, ace, zebra) they are excellent.

As for your "problem" there are so many factors involved: psychoacoustics, mixing, presets, etc. It's hard to tell. You should choose what you like more.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: VSTi advice

Post by Stromkraft » Wed May 20, 2015 9:26 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
I don't care much for the Live instruments even if i had great hopes when I got Suite. I feel the more odd ones like Tension and Collision are potentially the most useful, but the presets are not showing off the Live instruments to their best unfortunately.

You can make great sounding presets on some of them if you learn them from the ground up. One tip I can give you for Operator is to use Hard on the Filter Shaper. That fattens up the patches I've done in that. Still pales in comparisons though.
Even so I must say I like the contents of the Designer Drums pack, which utilizes Operator very nicely. It's an alternative or complement to drum synths like Tremor, which I use.
Make some music!

mylkoa
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:43 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: VSTi advice

Post by mylkoa » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:01 pm

Stromkraft wrote:The only VSTi that makes me respond emotionally in a similar way is the Z3TA+ 2.
Hi Strom! Thanks so much for the recomendation of Z3TA. I just downloaded the demo and am so happy. I'm going to have to buy it now. I have been trying to use the Live instruments and Massive, but my results have been slow. This synth is like a breathe of fresh air! Do you have a preferred source for drum sounds and FX?
Stromkraft wrote:I only really use drum racks and Sampler currently.
I have seen the approach of using mostly Drum Racks... There is a company called Niche Audio which makes complete Live sets, with instruments, FX, and sequences - and the creators mainly use Drum Racks with samples on them, and they make very nice short tracks! I use those as demos to study, learn, and take inspiration from. Are you still currently working like this? Also, when you use Sampler, do you find yourself recording long jams with a synth, modifying CC parameters as you go, and then dropping the Audio in Simpler and using Slice mode, or doing something similar with Sampler? Or do you sample short sounds from the Trident and Juno and then layer them?

Post Reply