Starting in music production

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
Rubygunz
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 1:15 am

Starting in music production

Post by Rubygunz » Mon May 25, 2015 1:17 am

Hey i just need a little help. I don't know anything about making music nothing at all, and i would love to start. It is to my understanding that ableton live is one of the elite programs out there. With the addition of push it makes making music so much more efficient. Would it be ideal to buy ableton live 9 suite with push combo to start making music? With a couple of books of course to learn. I understand this combo is more than 1000 dollars but i feel that will help push me to stick with it, i am prepared to use the money, but i want to know if its wise to get this to start out. Any feedback is appreciated, thank you.

pinkpaint
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Starting in music production

Post by pinkpaint » Mon May 25, 2015 2:49 am

It really depends on what your trying to do. Whenever spending a lot of money you should definitely look at the alternatives out there to see if they fit you more. However, the push+ableton combo is really good for beginners who are making hip hop and dance music as there is a lot of tutorials on push and ableton with those genres.

Logic is only 200$. No matter what DAW (Digital Audio Workstation aka your music software aka Ableton, Logic, Pro Tools, Studio One, Bitwig etc) you choose however, I want to warn you, it is never a cake walk jumping into the world of music production. Be prepared to take it slow to not get overwhelmed. Even for expert producers who have been using one program for a long time it is hard for them to switch to a new software, so someone who has no knowledge of any DAW should expect an even harder learn. However, again, there is an insane amount of tutorials online, if you devote yourself to it, your investment will be worth it.

Also, in my opinion, even if you get Ableton Suite, DAWs like Logic offer more instruments and in the long run it may save you buying a VST aka virtual synthesizer in the future. I definitely think Ableton is one of the most overpriced DAWs. However, at the same time, it is certainly one of the best.

Not sure if this helps or just confuses you more haha.

chrissobo13
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Starting in music production

Post by chrissobo13 » Mon May 25, 2015 3:19 am

I agree with what pinkpaint said. Checkout some alternatives, and try to get hands on with as much equipment and software as you can. The Ableton + Push combo would potentially be an incredible experience for you, but maybe you'd find a better home with Logic. Best to be as informed as possible!

@N63L0
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:18 pm
Location: Chiberia

Re: Starting in music production

Post by @N63L0 » Mon May 25, 2015 5:20 am

I agree with what both chrissobo13 and pinkpaint said. Another thing that only you can gauge is how deep your love for music is. I've seen a lot of my friends "come and go" so to speak, because their hearts weren't entirely there, and couldn't deal with the massive learning curve. I'm not saying this to overwhelm you, all I'm saying is if you love music enough, none of that "learning curve" stuff will matter, and therefore the products will be worth your investment. Good luck :D

dburns
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:04 am
Contact:

Re: Starting in music production

Post by dburns » Mon May 25, 2015 10:10 pm

Take a few years of professional lessons on the instrument you like (piano, guitar, etc.).

Then you can spend your money on the right software/hardware for you.
Dave Burns
Lowell, MA

More equipment than skill.

pinkpaint
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Starting in music production

Post by pinkpaint » Mon May 25, 2015 10:14 pm

^ dont listen to this guy... a few years of lessons lol..

that would surely help but that will just delay the inevitable learning curve that is music software. Jump in man. We weren't trying to scare you. Youtube is a valuable source. Lynda and other resources offer everything you need for a step by step walk through into learning pretty much any DAW. I hope you get into music production.

sana48
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Starting in music production

Post by sana48 » Mon May 25, 2015 10:28 pm

I'd recommend Ableton, along with what everyone else said about learning curves. As far as the push goes I do not see it as necessary (I own one). It may be a better choice to pick up a decent midi keyboard for a lot less. I love the push for drum sequencing but I enjoy the keyboard much more for everything else. If I had to do it all over again I would have rather purchased a high end midi keyboard for the price of the Push:) All the best

chrissobo13
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Starting in music production

Post by chrissobo13 » Mon May 25, 2015 10:54 pm

Yeah, I don't think a "few years" of lessons are necessary. But maybe study some basic theory and compositional techniques. Youtube is a great resource, as mentioned above. You'll definitely want some amount of knowledge, when it comes to working your way around a keyboard. Not in terms of performance, per se, but in terms of theory. Learn some basic harmonic progressions and scales/modes, get a grip on what time signatures are all about. That knowledge will go a LONG way. You'll no doubt learn a bunch more in the process. And its all a (very fun) process 8)

ImNotDedYet
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Starting in music production

Post by ImNotDedYet » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:06 am

Worst thing about learning from youtube is it's not interactive, so you could very well be picking up bad habits with no one there to tell you that's the case.

Not to mention, you only learn from youtube what you seek out to learn and not necessarily the things you need to learn at a certain point to progress further.

Taking lessons from an actual human being that knows not only the instrument they're teaching you, but also has likely years teaching the same content to others is the best route to learn IMO.

The good news is, no matter how you decide to learn about music theory or an instrument, you can still be producing as well and learning DAWs, synths, mixing, sound design, arrangement, etc.

Idonotlikebroccoli
Posts: 1203
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:29 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Starting in music production

Post by Idonotlikebroccoli » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:34 am

There are good replies in this topic as well: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=216278
Please vote! Live 10's "multi" clip editing should allow selection+editing of multiple clips in one action:

(L10-SUG-0228) Multiple MIDI transpose

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=228094


EasyWorkflow
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:37 am

Re: Starting in music production

Post by EasyWorkflow » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:26 am

This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart because I am newbie (5 months into Ableton & Push), yet I feel well qualified to answer your question. I spent at least a month deciding between Logic and Ableton. I thank God I went with Ableton & Push, even though Logic is a great program and costs less. What I didn't realize at the time of purchase was the tremendous learning curve that would be needed to learn Ableton & Push. It got to the point I second guessed myself for spending the $1000. I previously had a high end home studio which I built in 2000 - 2001 which was not a DAW, but built around the Roland VS 24 which was a stand alone 24 track recorder. There was no MIDI involved and we made great recordings. So I figured this would be easy to learn because I already had a studio.
I COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE WRONG . This was so difficult for me and overwhelming, I was ready to give up. Thankfully I didn't and found a way that allowed me to learn quickly and progress at a rate that I didn't think was possible.

A couple questions:

1.) Do you already play an instrument? If so, what do you play?

2.) If you play an instrument, do you want to play gigs? Ableton beats the crap out of Logic hands down for musicians who wants to implement a DAW into live performance. I have been playing guitar for 38 years and love gigging, so that made the decision to go with Ableton easy once I learned about it's live applications because I wanted to implement a DAW into live performance.

2.) Finances are important as well . I only say this because in my opinion, some type of formal training is needed. . Youtube videos are amazing and you can learn from some of the best instructors for free. I tried that route initially and it didn't work for me. Then I invested in formal training and signed up for Lynda.com, MacProVideo.com, and purchased 8 courses from WarpAcademy.com. Still I was not not progressing at the rate I thought I would and was becoming more depressed after spending money on all these courses and still not getting it. . But more importantly, even with all these video courses, no one was holding me accountable for studying the online lessons or giving me homework assignments. Everyone is different, but I needed someone to hold me accountable for progressing which includes homework after every lesson. Lots of homework. Plus you can't ask a video a question if something very simple does not make sense to you. I finally realized that if wanted any chance at ever learning Ableton & Push, I would need to pay a teacher for private lessons, or go to a school in NYC like Dubspot. I live in NY so that was doable for me. Both Dubspot and Point Blank offer online courses that are interactive with a teacher but are very expensive.

I decided to take another route and 2 weeks ago started taking online private lessons from an Ableton certified instructor. I have had 9 hours of lessons so far in the past 2 weeks. I can tell you without a doubt, that for me anyway, that was the very best decision I have made since buying Ableton. In a short 2 weeks, I have learned more than I have in past 5 months. I finally am starting to understand this animal and I am BLOWN AWAY how amazing Push is and how it integrates with Ableton. The first 8 lessons I NEVER touched Push and learned by writing in MIDI notes with my mouse or pointer, learning keyboard shortcuts, and creating tracks. I finally used Push my last lesson. It was AMAZING to finally make tracks without the need to use my mouse or look at the computer screen.

So it really comes down to how badly you really want to learn Ableton & Push, and also how quickly you want to progress. I really think I would have given up had it not been for the private lessons. I now have someone holding me accountable to complete homework assignments and also making sure I progress every week by learning new concepts. It's very easy to buy a video course and never finish it. The thing I found with private lessons is that every lesson has an exponential effect meaning those 9 hours of lessons feels more like 40 hours because every time I learn a new concept which is every lesson, it motivates you to want to keep on progressing because your confidence level goes through the roof.

I can now put on any Youtube video, and understand exactly what the teacher is doing, and learn a great deal from all the free resources available online. So I am back to watching Youtube videos, going throughMacProVideo.com courses and of course still taking lessons. . I have committed to a year of private lessons. I take 5 one-hour lessons a week now. I invested almost 6K in building my studio which includes the initial $1000 for Ableton & Push. But I had to upgrade my old computer, buy studio monitors, headphones, microphone, & interface if you play an instrument. PLus I didn't have an electric guitar and dropped some big coin getting the guitar I needed.

Remember that Push is an amazing instrument. Yes...Push is an instrument just like a keyboard or guitar. I spent thousands of dollars studying guitar. So why would this be any different? Once you learn Push you will be so very grateful you invested the time and possibly money. It is also designed to help you with some music theory due to the way it allows you to play in every key or modes so you can make music without hitting "sour" notes. Learning the theory behind music is so important I can not imagine learning Ableton & Push without it. Don't get scared off by music theory because you only need to learn the basics which can be done with a 3 hour course from lynda.comor macprovideo.com. .

Anyone interested in my mentor's contact info, please send me a PM. His rates are so low that I am able to take 5 lessons a week. You just have to pay for 10 lessons at a clip to get the deeply discounted hourly rate. He uses Skype, screen sharing software so he sees my screen during entire lesson, and even though he can control my screen, I have to do everything so I develop muscle memory. He emails me a video copy of the lesson as soon as it is over so I now have a library of customized videos made just for me.

I realize this is a long response, but your post required me to take the time and be as honest and thorough as possible because you are in the stage of deciding if you really want to get into music production which is quite obvious you do. I just want you to learn from my mistakes and keep it real. This is NOT easy. NOthing worthwhile in life is ever easy learning, but once you pay your dues, the magic will happen. It's up to you how much time you are willing to put into Ableton and how quickly you want to reach your musical goals.

I want to stress that the above are my views only and I am sure many of the top Ableton gurus on this site never paid a penny for a lesson and learned on their own through trial and error. I wish I could have gone that route which I really tried to do, but nothing worked for me until I started lessons.

Best of luck in your musical endeavors.

dburns
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:04 am
Contact:

Re: Starting in music production

Post by dburns » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:29 am

Rubygunz,

Did you take my advice, above?

If so, you are now making better music and are a much better educated musician than pinkpaint, who is still trying to figure out how to "make a song."

Good luck.
Dave Burns
Lowell, MA

More equipment than skill.

Tagor
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Re: Starting in music production

Post by Tagor » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:50 pm

if you catch the loop
the loop catches you.

sometimes like a marriage
sometimes a reason to end it.

marlonzuri
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:03 pm

Re: Starting in music production

Post by marlonzuri » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:25 pm

Personally, I wouldn't invest in Suite and would just go with the standard version. Then once you have learnt the basics of Ableton buy the Komplete 11 bundle from native instruments (the regular one or ultimate, its your money). The first party plugins Ableton uses are very restrictive in what you can do with them, and while there is always a way around it, you really are wasting a lot of time and making it harder for yourself. People will make the argument that if you learn the hard way then youll be better off in the long run which is somewhat valid but I find a lot of people get frustrated learning Abletons first party plugins and just give up all together.

With the Komplete 11 bundle, you get an insane amount of vsts ranging from synths, drums, instrument samplers, mastering tools, I could go on. And its all pretty current and of a high standard, it will seriously be the best purchase of your life.

They do sales 2 or 3 times a year so look out from them, it will save you a lot of money.

Also if you are a student, buy whatever version of Ableton you end up getting with a student discount. You might have to go to a music store and buy a physical copy and download it but its worth the hundreds of dollars you can save.

Post Reply