Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

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Loopscious
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Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by Loopscious » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:23 am

I've heard some tracks where there's a lot going on melodically and one element does a pitch rise ---sometime it's a sustained notes, other times a pitched drum, other times even maybe melodies that are rising in pitch... All while staying in key.

I've tried the usual pitch bend linear or concave / convex lines. I've gotten it to work on sustained notes set to glide, placing these notes on the rights ones for the key. But how do you do it if the notes are staccato? I've done a fair amount of searching online (including watched a ton of youtube videos) and haven't found anything really helpful.

Can anyone help explain how to do this or point me to some links that do so?

Thank you!
Live 10 suite (just transitioning over from 9), mix of hardware and software

Steve Glen
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Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by Steve Glen » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:53 am

If you are using a pitch bend (the most common technique,) it's all about setting the Pitch Bend Range [PB].

In Operator, it's next to Pitch (+5) in this image
Image

For example, if you set the range to 12 semitones (st), and bend the pitch 100% the final note is one octave above the unbent note.

Image

Loopscious
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Location: Washington DC

Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by Loopscious » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:03 am

Steve Glen wrote:If you are using a pitch bend (the most common technique,) it's all about setting the Pitch Bend Range [PB].

In Operator, it's next to Pitch (+5) in this image
Image

For example, if you set the range to 12 semitones (st), and bend the pitch 100% the final note is one octave above the unbent note.

Image

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the note. This part I know, the challenge I'm having is during the bend itself it goes out of pitch if anything melodic is playing over top of the riser. I've heard this done smoothly, like in Daddy's Grooves by Pros and Icons (https://youtu.be/y5x2Ddj9-iU) starting at 45 seconds is the first one, but the risers are throughout the track. It doesn't sound (to me) like everything is rising together, like some elements are not going up...



Thanks!
Live 10 suite (just transitioning over from 9), mix of hardware and software

irrelevance
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Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by irrelevance » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:59 am

Gave it a quick listen. That's not just a pitch rise it also sounds like a filter opening up revealing more spectral content. The pitch can increase in rough steps to stay in tune and the filter opens up smoothly giving the impression of overall smoothness imo. Depends what key your tack is in and whether your steps are gonna play chromatically or in a scale but the filter smoothing is definitely important.

Loopscious
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Location: Washington DC

Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by Loopscious » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:33 pm

irrelevance wrote:Gave it a quick listen. That's not just a pitch rise it also sounds like a filter opening up revealing more spectral content. The pitch can increase in rough steps to stay in tune and the filter opens up smoothly giving the impression of overall smoothness imo. Depends what key your tack is in and whether your steps are gonna play chromatically or in a scale but the filter smoothing is definitely important.
Thanks!

I'll give it a shot and report back!

8)
Live 10 suite (just transitioning over from 9), mix of hardware and software

snakedogman
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Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by snakedogman » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:48 pm

if one element's pitch rises like in the example you posted, it is most definitely not "staying in key". But that doesn't matter as long as that's the effect you're after.
Certainly it might start and end at suitable notes in the key of the song (this is where the pitch bend range might come in handy) but if you're looking for a pitch riser that stays in key all the way, I'm afraid that's sort of a contradiction, unless it becomes more of a stepped thing but then it's more like playing a rising scale/melody and not a smooth pitch riser like in the example.
Using FM (like Operator) you can also create rising effects that seem to be like a pitch rise but aren't really when you are pitching up the modulator while the carrier stays they same. You can even get sounds that seem to be going up and down at the same time using FM.

Loopscious
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Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by Loopscious » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:16 pm

snakedogman wrote:if one element's pitch rises like in the example you posted, it is most definitely not "staying in key". But that doesn't matter as long as that's the effect you're after.
Certainly it might start and end at suitable notes in the key of the song (this is where the pitch bend range might come in handy) but if you're looking for a pitch riser that stays in key all the way, I'm afraid that's sort of a contradiction, unless it becomes more of a stepped thing but then it's more like playing a rising scale/melody and not a smooth pitch riser like in the example.
Using FM (like Operator) you can also create rising effects that seem to be like a pitch rise but aren't really when you are pitching up the modulator while the carrier stays they same. You can even get sounds that seem to be going up and down at the same time using FM.

FM --- that's a cool idea, will give it a shot.

My original question --- in the past (years ago) I did something very similar which was to step up the notes through a scale, but have them overlap and glide so it does slide up but "hangs" on notes in the key. I was wondering if there's a similar technique with pitch bending instead of doing something exactly linear. the advice of using a filter is a good one.

I did pull off a linear riser with the "trick" being to hold the first and last pitch longer, I basically landed on the final pitch 1 bar before the riser ends so it kind of anchors it back in key and makes it sound pretty good.

Thanks everyone for sharing the tips and advice!
Live 10 suite (just transitioning over from 9), mix of hardware and software

irrelevance
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

Re: Help! How do you make a pitch riser that stays in key?

Post by irrelevance » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:02 am

Loopscious wrote:
snakedogman wrote:if one element's pitch rises like in the example you posted, it is most definitely not "staying in key". But that doesn't matter as long as that's the effect you're after.
Certainly it might start and end at suitable notes in the key of the song (this is where the pitch bend range might come in handy) but if you're looking for a pitch riser that stays in key all the way, I'm afraid that's sort of a contradiction, unless it becomes more of a stepped thing but then it's more like playing a rising scale/melody and not a smooth pitch riser like in the example.
Using FM (like Operator) you can also create rising effects that seem to be like a pitch rise but aren't really when you are pitching up the modulator while the carrier stays they same. You can even get sounds that seem to be going up and down at the same time using FM.

FM --- that's a cool idea, will give it a shot.

My original question --- in the past (years ago) I did something very similar which was to step up the notes through a scale, but have them overlap and glide so it does slide up but "hangs" on notes in the key. I was wondering if there's a similar technique with pitch bending instead of doing something exactly linear. the advice of using a filter is a good one.

I did pull off a linear riser with the "trick" being to hold the first and last pitch longer, I basically landed on the final pitch 1 bar before the riser ends so it kind of anchors it back in key and makes it sound pretty good.

Thanks everyone for sharing the tips and advice!
Don't think there are any hard and fast rules on the creation of“risers" which I've also heard called uplifters or downlifters(oxymoronic). They're more than simple transitions or"stings" as the whole point is to raise the emotion and drive the piece forward/heighten expectation of the listener imo. so raising or lowering pitch is a classic form but technology affords many more options like filters,fm as snakedogman suggests shepard tones, ring modulation etc.

Always good to pick up and use new techniques 8)

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