Arrangement Videos

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Martin Gifford
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Arrangement Videos

Post by Martin Gifford » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:22 pm

Hi all,

I'm looking for arrangement videos. Ideally, it would follow this format:

1. they briefly play the main clips,
2. they arrange the clips in a way that suits the genre,
3. they add transitions and effects to get it near to a finished product.

Quick and dirty videos are fine so long as the principles are good.

I'm guessing that most of us are okay at creating cool sounding clips. But kicking on to completion is where we might slow down or procrastinate. :oops: Seeing how a variety of people do it, might help us to speed up and reduce procrastination.

It would be great if we can create a list of good arrangement videos. 8)

Tarekith
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:24 pm

Tarekith
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TomViolenz
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:45 pm

I will never understand this sentiment.
You want to be an artist, but you want others to show you how?

This is like all these creative writing courses. None of them ever produced a work worth reading, from a writer, who has anything to say worth knowing.

But, I'll play nice 8)

Here is a quick tutorial on composition:

10:Arrange.
20:Compose.
30:Fail? Y/N
40:If Fail=N Goto 60
50:Man UP Goto 10:
60:Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy 8)

That's really all you need to know.

Martin Gifford
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Martin Gifford » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:53 pm

TomViolenz,

Sorry. :oops:

Personally, I can get overwhelmed with the possibilities and bigness of the task, so these kinds of videos can you get started. Of course, you can go back and change everything later once you see how the whole thing gels.

Tarekith,

Those look good. I'll have a read tomorrow.

Here's a good basic techno arrangement video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH-Efw9m2iY

I heard that putting effects on the master like Sadowick does is naughty, but it's so handy!

TomViolenz
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:57 pm

Martin Gifford wrote:TomViolenz,

Sorry. :oops:

Personally, I can get overwhelmed with the possibilities and bigness of the task,
OHHHH don't think I don't!
But that's what we signed up for 8)

Martin Gifford
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Martin Gifford » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:45 pm

TomViolenz,

Maybe you might have a lot of Taurus or Capricorn in your astrology chart - the harder things are the better? I'm the opposite - don't make me think, and KISS!

Here's an example of something that's a bit less useful because it describes the arrangement after the fact, but it still has some ideas in it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgPgXfqoOMU

There are so many videos on YouTube that are one of two extremes:

1. laboriously create a tune from start to finish

2. run through a finished tune.

The best is when they focus that point where you have all your clips already, and you are moving on to organising them on the timeline in arrangement view, then smoothing out transitions and adding effects and other tweaks.

TomViolenz
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:22 pm

Honestly I'm not sure the whole arrangement/composing process is really that hard. Just move your stuff around until you like what you hear and then start making nice transitions. It can be lots of fun.

What is hard, is if you think it's some black box with magic rules you don't know. But these rules don't really exist. They are made up by unimaginative people too afraid to admit that they have no idea why certain pieces are awesome and others are not. Unfortunately there are a lot of them and that has let to these made up rules being burned into the expectations of listeners. Kind of a self fulfilling prophesy.

If you want to be an artist, find your own timing and arrangements, border conditions, contra points, call vs. responses, fade ins and fade outs......etc.
Start a piece with the chorus and a reverb fade out and finish with the slowest intro you can come up with and then follow with a drum roll before the silence - and simply enjoy the freedom from the weight of expectations. And who knows, maybe you just invented a new genre :mrgreen:

Tarekith
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:00 pm

Some people need help conceptualizing and seeing how the arrangement actually looks for something they can listen to at the same time. I've noticed that they have trouble visualizing HOW something should look in order to sound a certain way. Once they can see an example or two, then the jump from something you hear to something you see becomes easier and they can explore on their own.
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TomViolenz
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:33 pm

Well if trial and error was good enough for evolution in order to make humans, it's certainly good enough for me to make some tunes :mrgreen:

And if evolution would have asked for help with how to get better at making hominids by looking at how hominids are already made, we would all still sit on trees and fling poo instead of rockets.


Thinking about it some more, maybe that's what we should have done anyways :x

Martin Gifford
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Martin Gifford » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:17 am

TomViolenz wrote: Well if trial and error was good enough for evolution in order to make humans, it's certainly good enough for me to make some tunes
I'm all for experimentation and finding your own unique expression. But...

Some genres have conventions. For some kinds of dance music, if you don't follow the conventions at least to some extent, then your track won't get played. I've listened to your stuff, and it is quite experimental, whereas I'm more into pop.

Also, modern software encourages the creation of short bits of music, which can become a bad habit that (in my real life experience) isn't easily broken.

Also, seeing more knowledgeable people laying out a track will teach you some tricks. If you've created 200 riffs, but only full tracks, then obviously you will learn from seeing others who have created 100 tracks.

TomViolenz
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:45 am

Sure, just don't be sad when I don't consider you a real artist 8)

An artist always needs to be an innovator, if not a revolutionary. All the genres you are trying to copy now, came about because people, who came before you took bold steps.
That's why things like Techno are considered to be music (not by everyone of course ;-)) just like a classical concerto, yet to get from one to the other requires HUGE leaps in the approach and a pulling down of lots of boundaries and common expectations.

If you don't even want to entertain your own way of thinking and inspiration on a very small scale, while with very high likelyhood still remaining within the boundaries of your prefered genre, then really what is all your fretting really good for?!

Being an artist is tough, agreed, but that just comes with the territory. And that amplies to the sort of "experimental" music I make, just as it does to more conventional genres.

You said something before in this thread along the lines of: "TomV, well you must be a proponent of the school of hard knocks". And all I can respond to this is: It depends!

Do you need to know how certain techniques work in Live, or music production, or Midi controller use, or anything else I may be knowledgeable about? I'm almost always (depending on the day I'm having) willing to do all the hand holding necesssary as long as some effort on your part is apparant. But when the question basically comes down to: How should I do my art? Or: How can I get the result this other artist already came up with?!
I really find that this is an absolute fallacy! You can't learn this part of being an artist from someone else. You need to fight to find your own way. Otherwise it will always be the other one, who will be the artist, while you remain a guy having fun with a hobby. (nothing wrong with that btw.)
And yes, I'm blunt about this.

Further: When I mention trial and error being the name of the game, I think I'm already doing some sort of hand holding. People often assume that the innovators of yore were some sort of genius (which translates in the normal persons mind to magical, unapproachable god like entity), while I am certain that the real magic was based on recognizing the thing they came up with via trial and error to be new and interesting, instead of just chaotic and noisy. If you think you need to follow others, you may never have these sort of moments, never experience what this magical inspiration thing feels like. So, grab trial and errors hand and let it guide you a bit. Live is to short for producing rehashed ideas 8)

Kent_in_CO
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Kent_in_CO » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:16 pm

Tom Cosm has some nice videos where you're essentially a fly on the wall as he produces a track. He tends to work in the arrangement view rather than starting with clips, but you'll probably find some inspiration from watching how he tackles things. https://www.youtube.com/user/cosmcosm
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sporkles
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by sporkles » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:09 pm

Jeebus, Tom. If I could have just 10% of your energy, I'd be a very happy person. Also, I wouldn't channel that energy into constantly assuming the role of the Ableton forum sensei. In a thread like this, you have three options: a) provide what the OP asks for via a couple of links, b) shrug and ignore the thread because you feel the way you do about it and c) write a small dissertation on why the OP shouldn't be making the request in the first place. And we all know which option you'll choose. Believing in your own work is absolutely critical, but some humility might be in its place. I find your "suffering artiste" shtick a little nauseating, to be honest. I just don't think you deserve any special cred just because you're making "experimental" noise music. (Please, if there's anything more pretentious than proclaiming that you're making experimental art, I'd like to see it!)

Bottom line is: the OP would like a kick start on arrangements. Not everyone (rather few of us, I'd bet) has a lot of time to spare when music is a hobby, something you have to squeeze in after work, when you have a little time by yourself when your partner is not in need of your attention, etc. If there are shortcuts to getting to a certain point, they are completely valid.

Why is learning how to arrange any worse than learning how to play the piano? Online tutorials are the way learning things outside an educational institution works nowadays.

I've seen condescending "true artists" like you on this forum before, who berate anyone who has the audacity and desire to make music that fits in a genre. They all end up being banned when their egos simply can no longer be contained within the narrow boundaries of an online forum.

TomViolenz
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:31 pm

sporkles wrote:Jeebus, Tom. If I could have just 10% of your energy, I'd be a very happy person. Also, I wouldn't channel that energy into constantly assuming the role of the Ableton forum sensei. In a thread like this, you have three options: a) provide what the OP asks for via a couple of links, b) shrug and ignore the thread because you feel the way you do about it and c) write a small dissertation on why the OP shouldn't be making the request in the first place. And we all know which option you'll choose. Believing in your own work is absolutely critical, but some humility might be in its place. I find your "suffering artiste" shtick a little nauseating, to be honest. I just don't think you deserve any special cred just because you're making "experimental" noise music. (Please, if there's anything more pretentious than proclaiming that you're making experimental art, I'd like to see it!)

Bottom line is: the OP would like a kick start on arrangements. Not everyone (rather few of us, I'd bet) has a lot of time to spare when music is a hobby, something you have to squeeze in after work, when you have a little time by yourself when your partner is not in need of your attention, etc. If there are shortcuts to getting to a certain point, they are completely valid.

Why is learning how to arrange any worse than learning how to play the piano? Online tutorials are the way learning things outside an educational institution works nowadays.

I've seen condescending "true artists" like you on this forum before, who berate anyone who has the audacity and desire to make music that fits in a genre. They all end up being banned when their egos simply can no longer be contained within the narrow boundaries of an online forum.

Well, I'm here to serve eh ;-)

And I was not the one who called my music experimental, everyone else is.
And I'm not delusional enough to not know that this means:I think it's total crap, but I will pretend to be nice and respectful about it ;-)

I don't perceive my music to be experimental. It's just the result of my creative process. If its good, bad, experimental, done hundreds of times before, lame, exciting, emotional, boring, noise or beautiful (as I like to think) is REALLY not for me to say, but the listener. 8)

And I will continue choosing option c, because that's what I enjoy doing. Waxing in self-important philosophical discussions about art and what it is and what it's defined by. I figure a and b is already taken care of by all the other good folks here. You for instance seem to have b pretty well under control :mrgreen:

Matt_Quinn
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Re: Arrangement Videos

Post by Matt_Quinn » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:36 pm

My lord you are insufferable. FFS he asked a simple, completely appropriate question. Answer it, or move on. Jesus.
the_planet wrote:Trap music is not supported in the current version.

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