Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
alexfsu
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Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by alexfsu » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:43 pm

Been reading that when percussion samples are placed as audio clips instead of from a sampler/simpler, they "hit harder" and are "deeper" souding. These guys are crazy talented, there must be some truth to this. But why would this be?

login
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by login » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:05 pm

Well this is an argument from authority and is considered a logical phalacy, it has no real evidence behind it to support it self.
The argument from authority can take several forms. As a syllogism, the argument has the following basic structure:[5][9]

A says P about subject matter S.
A should be trusted about subject matter S.
Therefore, P is correct.

The second premise is not accepted as valid, as it amounts to an unfounded assertion that leads to circular reasoning able to define person or group A into inerrancy on any subject matter
So I would ask: Is there any real evidence of this?

Also there could be a simple explanation to differences between the sound of a sample in a clip and one in Simpler/Sampler:

- Simpler/Sampler envelopes
- Simpler/Sampler filters
- Simpler/Sampler modulation
- Simpler/Sampler other parameters
- Volume
- Warping

To me a lot of the language used by musicians as: deeper, warmer, harder, etc amounts to hocus pocus with no way to meaasure (as for example one can meassure loudness) or prove it (with tests).

garyboozy
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by garyboozy » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:47 pm

heh...

Sampler and Simpler default to -12db, whereas clip slots play at the sample's actual level.

so in a way the clip slots do 'hit harder' but there's no under-the-hood voodoo going on.

H20nly
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by H20nly » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:09 pm

login wrote:Well this is an argument from authority and is considered a logical phalacy, it has no real evidence behind it to support it self.
The argument from authority can take several forms. As a syllogism, the argument has the following basic structure:[5][9]

A says P about subject matter S.
A should be trusted about subject matter S.
Therefore, P is correct.

The second premise is not accepted as valid, as it amounts to an unfounded assertion that leads to circular reasoning able to define person or group A into inerrancy on any subject matter
So I would ask: Is there any real evidence of this?

Also there could be a simple explanation to differences between the sound of a sample in a clip and one in Simpler/Sampler:

- Simpler/Sampler envelopes
- Simpler/Sampler filters
- Simpler/Sampler modulation
- Simpler/Sampler other parameters
- Volume
- Warping

To me a lot of the language used by musicians as: deeper, warmer, harder, etc amounts to hocus pocus with no way to meaasure (as for example one can meassure loudness) or prove it (with tests).
i think the answer is in the quote... in order to make the implication seem valid, you need a SAP

regretfullySaid
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by regretfullySaid » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:12 am

Just stick a spectrum analyzer on the master track and the audio will be better.
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re:dream
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by re:dream » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:38 am

It does not matter who. Any reasonably authoritative spectrum analyzer will do. Obviously, you will want to look at their CVs, and maybe get some examples of spectra they have analyzed.

puzzlefactory
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by puzzlefactory » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:38 pm

I meant the so-called "big names" when i said "who?".

Pitch Black
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by Pitch Black » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:16 pm

Once the citation is published in a peer-reviewed journal, we can convene the committee.
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beats me
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by beats me » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:45 pm

Pitch Black wrote:Once the citation is published in a peer-reviewed journal, we can convene the committee.

In accordance with the news media I am a respected expert because I’ve commented on music production a time or two.

Once you’ve MIDI’ed up your sampler/simpler track flatten the track to audio. BAM! Harder, deeper, warmer, hittier, publish, collect your money.

yur2die4
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wol, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by yur2die4 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:32 pm

Just try both methods and see which works out best for yourself. Each has its own strengths and drawbacks.

alexfsu
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wolf, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by alexfsu » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:20 am

I got a kick in audio and one in Simpler, and the audio is def fuller. I have a Spectrogram up and can visually see the difference in the waveform. Both are unwarped, the Simpler is init, and the levels are mixed exactly. Not trying to make an argument or anything, I just think this is important to point out for producers. Look these guys up, they're not exactly noobs. So much for drum racks though :/

pinkpaint
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wolf, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by pinkpaint » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:42 am

alexfsu wrote:I got a kick in audio and one in Simpler, and the audio is def fuller. I have a Spectrogram up and can visually see the difference in the waveform. Both are unwarped, the Simpler is init, and the levels are mixed exactly. Not trying to make an argument or anything, I just think this is important to point out for producers. Look these guys up, they're not exactly noobs. So much for drum racks though :/
they shouldn't be..

make sure your spectrum is off Auto and set to the same parameters (I.E. -17, -62), and volume is zero db on simpler. they shouldn't be different.

alexfsu
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wolf, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by alexfsu » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:46 am

pinkpaint wrote:
alexfsu wrote:I got a kick in audio and one in Simpler, and the audio is def fuller. I have a Spectrogram up and can visually see the difference in the waveform. Both are unwarped, the Simpler is init, and the levels are mixed exactly. Not trying to make an argument or anything, I just think this is important to point out for producers. Look these guys up, they're not exactly noobs. So much for drum racks though :/
they shouldn't be..

make sure your spectrum is off Auto and set to the same parameters (I.E. -17, -62), and volume is zero db on simpler. they shouldn't be different.
Sorry it's the meter that shows a waveform, I don't know what it's called. I'm using Audiofile's Spectre software. The mixer amplitude readouts in Ableton are identical tho, and I can perceive the difference on my monitors. Trust me I wish this weren't the case, I was just starting to love Simpler/Push2 combo.

smutek
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Re: Big names (Lido,Jai Wolf, Ekali,CRNKN) say audio is better

Post by smutek » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:55 am

alexfsu wrote:Sorry it's the meter that shows a waveform, I don't know what it's called. I'm using Audiofile's Spectre software. The mixer amplitude readouts in Ableton are identical tho, and I can perceive the difference on my monitors. Trust me I wish this weren't the case, I was just starting to love Simpler/Push2 combo.
I think you're doing it wrong. You could have been making music instead of spectrum analyzing yourself out of a combo you were starting to love, because of something big names like Jah Wolf said.

Food for thought!

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