External effects with KP3

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
TomViolenz
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:01 pm

Korhan wrote: I do not mean that it has to fit any specific genre. I have played with jazz, rock, turkish classical music, folk music, etc bands before. I'll check your stuff out definitely.
I hope you enjoy it, but please note that it is not much like what I do nowadays.
The new stuff is very EDM/Techno like. Not sure about the sub genre.

But my band mate is great on the A/H mixer and he can mix in anything for great effect, so a turkish classical music/house mash up or something equally non sensible should be doable 8)
See you next week, then! Please introduce yourself even when you hate the music and want to leave early :)))))
sure I'll just walk up on stage mid show then to express my displeasure :lol:

(just kidding ;-))

TomViolenz
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:57 am

Ok, I have another question regarding the KP.

Many effects (delays etc) and the looper/sample recorder depend on a sync to the audio source.
I assume that's done via Midi clock?!

Anyways, isn't Midi clock syncing really unstable and constantly drifting?

I can see doing the work to keep an external sequencer in sync via nudging, but an external delay or looper?! That must get annoying quickly.

What's your experience with the KP in this regard?

joeyfivecents
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by joeyfivecents » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:33 pm

I usually just use the tap tempo feature on the KP3 to get it in time. Being a little bit out of time keeps things interesting for me. You can also send sync out from Live via midi. I've never had a problem doing this but I've seen other people complaining about the timing drifting off. Again, tap tempo works just fine.....and do you really want all the effects perfectly locked in time? Seems like that would start to get a little boring after a while.
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TomViolenz
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:19 pm

For delays and especially the sample decks it seems rather important, especially if I sampled something I played a while ago and want to bring it back in.

Is that not problematic for you?

And I'm not just playing reday made tracks, my set is rather a constant struggle against chaos, so I really don't feel like I need further techical imprecissions to make my set interesting.

Korhan
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by Korhan » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:13 pm

I don't work on the time domain, so I don't need to sync anything to anything else... However, MIDI clocking can be quite stable. It has been used for producing music for so many decades, even in the 80s. So, unless you want to be precise to the +-1ms or so, MIDI should be fine. I have no idea how accurate the audio-to-bpm conversion works on the Kaosspad. I have a miniKP2 that has this feature but as I do not do beat-based music that much, I've never tried it.
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73*
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by 73* » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:48 pm

TomViolenz wrote:For delays and especially the sample decks it seems rather important, especially if I sampled something I played a while ago and want to bring it back in.

Is that not problematic for you?

And I'm not just playing reday made tracks, my set is rather a constant struggle against chaos, so I really don't feel like I need further techical imprecissions to make my set interesting.
I'm a huge Kaoss Pad fan (I own and use 6 of them), at times I'll run them sync'd via MIDI clock, at other's I'll dial in a common multiple/division of the tempo I'm working with. They stay in sync rather well, with the exception of a few scenarios:

The most notable being that the drum programs drift rather quickly when held on. The solution for this is to resample the desired drum loop to one of the 4 sample banks.

The next issue is that when building up layers with the sample banks, there is no way to guarantee identical start positions within your loops. What will normally happen is that all your loops will sound tight and correct when you originally sample them but if you restart the loop timing, using the "Align" function (holding 'shift' + pressing 'tap/range'), it will re-trigger all your loops at their individual start points which normally don't correspond to the original groove. The results are disastrous to say the least. However with that said, I have found that I can often recapture the original groove by adjusting the start time of each loop. The problem is that this solution doesn't lend itself to live performance, but is perfectly suitable for production.

If you aren't too concerned about the timing issues when dealing with loops I have found that the tempo sync'd FX are generally not an issue, even when left running for a prolonged period of time.

In general I've found that you will either love using a Kaoss Pad or hate it. They have their quirks, but I feel that's part of the charm. Also I've noticed that most people don't seem to use them to their full potential. They are a great tactile FX pad for live use, but they really start to shine when you start using the resampling features, and allow yourself to get lost in recursive and derivative loops.

TomViolenz
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Re: External effects with KP3

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:16 am

Thanks for your input, very valuable information.

Unfortunately it soured me on the KP.

I wanted it mostly for live shows, as I don't think I would use it in the studio. The effects are not that good, that they'd beat the plug ins I have and as a looper, Looper seems more versatile since it's already synced and quantized and can sample up to 16 bars.

I think I could have lived with nudging it a bit here and there to get it back in sync, but I had not assumed that the sample decks are not even quantized amongst themselves, that seems like a huge oversight to me :(
I'm actually puzzled how they could design it with such a flaw. :x

I hear you though on the great feeling of that touchpad and the hands on controls one has otherwise. These aspects made me want one in the first place 8)

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