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 Post subject: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 6854
Ok, I stumbled uppon a problem in my workflow that I did not expect to be one, maybe someone here knows the solution.

I have a DrumRack track with many instrument racks in it and I use the macros for different settings.

I made many different clips on that track which have automation envelopes in them, to change these settings. And I have one clip on that track without any automation envelopes. I use that clip for note input via a step sequencer.

Now I had assumed that when I trigger one of the automation containing clips, which set my parameters, and then trigger the clip without automation envelopes, that the settings from the first clip remain active. But that is not the case. They switch to the settings in that clip where I have no automation set, to where the dotted envelope line is.
That is undesirable and makes no sense to me

There must be some obvious setting I'm overlooking, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:41 pm 

Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 8:26 am
Posts: 44
I have the pretty much the same problem i think.

Just to confirm: if u set for example macro1 to a value of 100 (manually), then trigger a clip which sets the value to 50, then stop this clip. What value has macro1 now? Then, trigger a clip with no automation. What value has the macro1 while the clip is playing? Whats the value after stopping the clip?

Also, take note of what value macro1 has by default before the routine written above.

For me i think it reverts always to 100. cant test it right now but will.

Or did i miss the target completly?


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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:45 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 6854
No it doesn't revert to 100, but it reverts to where in the clip the automation lane is, even though that automation lane is not fixed with a break point (it's a dotted line)

I find that behavior confusing and can't see a use scenario for it.

If I set automation in one clip for a parameter and not in the other, would one not assume that that means I want the fist clip to set the parametr to a value, while I don't want it set to a value in the one without fixed automation?

Acting like the non fixed value is the value I want, makes no sense. If I wanted it there, I would have set it that way. That value is totaly abritrary. It's just there because, well, even if not set, it needs to be somewhere.... :x

Could someone more experienced please tell me there is an easy solution for this?! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:19 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 6854
so, crickets....?! :?

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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:26 am 

Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 8:26 am
Posts: 44
The dotted line usually should be on the value which you last set MANUALLY, or atleast the DEFAULT value (when u opened the set).
Your's is just random or what?


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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:54 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 6854
what's it matter?
Let's hope someone with some knowledge comes in with a solution, instead of us both confirming to each other over and over that we have the same (or a similar) problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:08 pm
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Location: Dunstable
The automation reverts back to the manually set value, eg. your dotted line....

This has always been the behaviour to my knowledge. Clip Automation only modifies a value on a momentary basis...

Cheers
D

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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:20 pm 

Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 8:26 am
Posts: 44
S4racen wrote:
The automation reverts back to the manually set value, eg. your dotted line....

This has always been the behaviour to my knowledge. Clip Automation only modifies a value on a momentary basis...

Cheers
D


Thanks for confirming S4racen.
@TomViolenz: I just try to understand what happens in Ableton, understanding what the problem's source is. Maybe then we could get closer to a solution. Idk if it would help in your case, I meanwhile made some "reset" clips which have automation-data for all the parameters I change manually or by automation, to get back to my desired "default" settings.

Its really silly how it works now. You change a parameter by clip-automation, stop the clip and it keeps that value. but start a clip with NO automation and it reverts back to the last MANUALLY set value. I dont get that concept.... :roll: It should always stay on the value which was last set, no matter if it was by clip-automation or manually. if there is no clip-automation or manual change, then for the love of the spaghettimonster, just leave the value as it is!!


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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:40 am
Posts: 2
Bump. I'm experiencing this now too. Anyone have a solution or workaround?


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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:36 pm
Posts: 14
Hi,

I think it has to do with the concepts behind "clips" versus "tracks".

If I'm reading you correctly, you want the automation to control parameters of a track, and the clips in that track to follow that automation.

The thing is, though, automation does not seem to be stored at the "track-level", but at the "clip-level".

So, every individual clip has it's own "track-independent-control-change" properties and, thus, it's own values, including the starting point. In a sense, the dotted line is actually automation. It is NOT the same as a track without MIDI-CC's.. (hope this makes any sense, difficult to put into words.. I mean this behaviour-wise, don't know if I'm technically right).

This is still not an answer to your question, you would like a solution to this. I'd say, if possible: merge all those clips in that track to one large clip, and your problem should be solved.

Hope this helps!


P.S. I did my background reading here:

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/live-concepts/

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/clip-view/


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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Baltimore, MD
Tom, did you ever find a way to deal with this issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 17190
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Tom is no longer a member of the forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Retaining automation in clip without automation envelope.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:49 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Baltimore, MD
Thanks, Tarekith. I remember he was kicked off for a while, but then that post seemed semi-recent (3 years ago), so I wasn't sure if he was allowed back or something. In any case, thanks for the info.


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