Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

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soundsliketree
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Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:41 pm

Ok Folks. I don't feel like this should be such a head scratching mystery. It's a simple idea, right?:

There should be a way to remember instrument rack macro control settings and recall them when playing live. We have this wonderful collection of powerful knobs and find these really great combinations, and we can record them into clips... but what about recalling them *in general* and not having them associated only with a clip you've already recorded?

Here are some ways that DON'T work:

• Create a blank MIDI clip with automation points for each of the macro knobs. Trigger this clip as a "preset" that will return the knobs to their desired values. Doesn't work because: After you've triggered such a preset clip and then you try recording a new clip, at the moment the new clip starts recording the knob values jump back to where they were before the "preset clip" was triggered.

• M4L Device "Automat": Disables the knobs; one can only use the presets when the device is active.

• "Kapture": Way too slow and laggy; and meant for an entire set - whereas I need instrument-specific presets.


So can anyone think of another way of doing this?
Any thoughts would be deeply appreciated!

Many thanks for your time.

soundsliketree
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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:06 pm

One possible workaround is to create blank clips with the automation anchor breakpoints already staked out for each of the 8 macro controls...

But then you have overdub into those clips (which are already at a set length) - so each clip needs to be prepared in advance. So this might work for performing pre-composed pieces but not really so much for improvising.

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by [jur] » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:58 am

Actually clips remember their parameters settings. Let's say you have 2 clips (A and B) in the same track, with one device containing 8 macros. Your macros reference settings are associated to clip A with all macros set to 0.
You automate the 1 st macro on clip B. While clip B is playing you launch clip A. When clip A is played, macro 1 will be set to the last value it was set when clip B was playing (because of the automation).
But if you play clip B, stop the transport and then launch clip A... the 1st macro will be back to its original setting i.e 0. Maybe you'll need to set it back to 0 the 1st time but then it will be remembered.
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soundsliketree
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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:18 am

Thanks for writing and helping to clarify this behavior for me.

I tried to experiment with your example, and I'm still experiencing the same confusing behavior I did before.

Here's what I did.
• Created Clip A - and put a red dot in the clip envelope of Macro Control 1
• Duplicated the above clip to the slot below and named it Clip B. I then moved the red dot lower for Macro Control 1 in this clip.
• Played with the instrument, using these two clips as presets. All works fine so far: I press Clip A or B and the sound changes as Macro 1 switches between the two values.
• Here's where it doesn't work for me: When I go to record a new clip in slot 3, even if Clip B has been playing, when the new clip starts recording the value jumps back to its Clip A value, right on the downbeat.

What I wanted to happen is for the new clip to record with the current sound - the one that Clip B caused.

Why do the knobs jump back to other values exactly when a new clip starts being recorded? It seems so counterintuitive.

Am I missing something?

Thanks again for your help!

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by Winterpark » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:24 am

does it work properly when you turn loop off on the 'preset' clip?
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soundsliketree
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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:27 am

Winterpark wrote:does it work properly when you turn loop off on the 'preset' clip?
It doesn't. The behavior is the same whether the "preset clip" has loop on or off, is or isn't playing currently. As soon as the a new clip begins recording the values jump and the sound suddenly changes.


I'm curious if anyone else can verify this behavior...?

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by Winterpark » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:14 am

I can not verify this behaviour... perhaps your midi controller is sending values continuously?
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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:44 am

Winterpark wrote:I can not verify this behaviour... perhaps your midi controller is sending values continuously?
I checked and I'm not sending any errant MIDI messages.

If you (or any other kind souls) have a moment to try something... I've created a test set:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x5kipnyxaoxr ... kB9Za?dl=0

It has 1 track with an operator patch in a rack with macro knob 1 set to filter frequency. There are three clips - labeled high, medium and low - each with automation sending the macro knob to a corresponding position. The launch quantization globally is 1 bar, but the individual clips are set to none, so while playing you can press each of the clips to change the sound.

Note that without the set playing I've set the macro knob to its highest value.

Please try this test:
Start the transport and begin playing the instrument, pressing the "preset buttons" to change the sound.
Then, after having pressed the medium or low buttons, try recording a clip in the fourth slot.

My experience is that the sound stays the same until the downbeat of the recording starting whereupon it changes immediately back to the highest value.

Do you also experience this?

I'm trying to figure out whether I'm experiencing Live's intended behavior.

I'm also trying to understand what [jur] meant by his explanation, and how that relates to what I'm attempting to do.

Thanks for your time!

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by Winterpark » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:06 am

yeah right! I see that behaviour now. That's strange.

seems to be a bug.
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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:50 pm

Well, as luck would have it, someone noticed a thread I started a year ago on the same topic, and mothergarage posted a link to a M4L device he made on that thread. It looks promising to me, and I'm checking the device out.

Here's the link to the other thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=205459&p=1672017#p1672017

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by Angstrom » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:02 pm

I'm not sure if you are aware of Clyphx, but it can certainly do what you want: snapshot macro dials and recall them via clips. It can also morph between states if you like.

Something like this

Code: Select all

[PresetName] 1/Snap Devall
Would snapshot all the devices and parameters on track one.

Watch a video (slightly old, its improved since then)
http://youtu.be/FGBQw6tn0Rg

But if you want to get into clyphx its best to ask, or read a bit about it viewtopic.php?f=1&t=201108&start=0

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:10 pm

I looked into Clyphx once, but my set started doing weird things (autoscrolling through scenes in session view, etc.), and I concluded it was either unstable or too much trouble at the time.

Have you ever had experiences with it being unstable?

I'm willing to give it another shot, but 1st I'll see if mothergarage's MultiMapper32 will accomplish what I'm looking to do.

Thanks for the suggestion. :)

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:41 pm

soundsliketree wrote:I looked into Clyphx once, but my set started doing weird things (autoscrolling through scenes in session view, etc.), and I concluded it was either unstable or too much trouble at the time.
This was not ClyphXs doing, this is a known Live bug that appears on occasion.

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by soundsliketree » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:57 pm

Hm... That behavior appeared exactly when I started using Clyphx and went away exactly when I gave up on it. You think that was compete coincidence?

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Re: Remembering Macro Knob Settings Somehow?? Saga Continues...

Post by Angstrom » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:36 pm

soundsliketree wrote:Hm... That behavior appeared exactly when I started using Clyphx and went away exactly when I gave up on it. You think that was compete coincidence?
I've never had that bug, in fact Clyphx has never given me any trouble at all.
but I don't think that bug is Clyphx related because several users reported that autoscrolling bug without Clyphx implicated or mentioned

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=191950
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=215568
viewtopic.php?p=1616376

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