Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ObtuseMoose
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by ObtuseMoose » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:37 pm

Pretty inconsistently, ... the CPU all the sudden spikes up to insane values (22.000% and such) the audio doesn't really crackle but basically slows to a crawl.
That problem only goes away again when I restart Live.
So wait a second. What do you mean by "restart Live"? Do you mean when you stop and restart playback, or you completely close Live and relaunch it? If it's the latter, I wouldn't think it would be hardware related, but rather a bug in either Live or OS X.

Have you looked at the system log messages in Console (Applications/Utilities/Console.app), especially while it's happening? There will be a ton of irrelevant stuff in there, but you might be able to see if OS X thinks something is fubar'd.

You might check the Disk tab on Activity Monitor while the problem is happening to see if Live (or something) is reading or writing crazy amounts of data. Compare the readings when it's working normally with those when it's messing up. (Look at the summary and graph at the bottom of the window.)

Also check the Memory tab on Activity Monitor. Look at the Memory Pressure graph at the bottom of the window to see if you're close to running out of memory. See if there's any amount reported in the "Swap Used:" summary at the bottom.

Also check the Network tab in Activity Monitor when it's messing up. See if one of the vast number of "helpful" online services that Apple just knows you'll love has suddenly decided to download a multi-gigabyte update at that time. (You DO have automatic updates turned OFF everywhere, don't you?)

Just for grins, have you tried turning off "Multicore/Multiprocessor Support" in Live? (Preferences -> CPU) Not sure what that would tell us if it makes a difference, but it would be interesting.

--
Moose
"all the musical ability of a blocked nostril"

kitekrazy
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by kitekrazy » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:57 pm

I've read EVO 840s have issues. Go with an 850 and use the 840 as an external.

TomViolenz
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:57 pm

kitekrazy wrote:I've read EVO 840s have issues. Go with an 850 and use the 840 as an external.
Money here is unfortunately always too tight to mention, so I would really prefer to get this one running again, rather than going out and just getting a new one. Especially since I've been using this one without issues for almost 2 years now.

Anyways, I have narrowed down the circumstances to these spikes/crashes a bit.
First what seems strange is that instead of showing ludicrously high CPU usage after a certain point, now Live just crashes.
Secondly the crash reports in the Konsole.app log always point to the same error code
Error code: 0x00000006
Trap number: 14
Exception Type: Exec_Bad_Access (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: Kern_Invalid_Address at 0x0000000000000000008
And it's always the same thread doing it: com.apple.audio.IOThread.client

What is even stranger is a clear connection to Follow actions.

If I use follow actions to trigger the next clips after 32 bars the crash happens after a while (not immidiately)

If I use clyphx to always trigger the next scenes after 32 bars (in effect doing the same thing in Live as in the Follow actions scenario), it's stable for the whole time I tested (hours on end, repeatedly)

And even if, after I did run it via clyphx for hours and then decide to switch to using Follow actions for the same function: within 15 minutes it crashes!


So for the time being I will keep using clyphx for this (this has some handling advantages anyways since it's easier to disable than Follow actions) and continue to monitor the situation.

florian_bl
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by florian_bl » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:20 pm

When you take a look at Console while Ableton Live is slow, do you see the whole log filled with messages likes this one?

20.09.15 17:20:07,429 Live[661]: assertion failed: 14F27: libxpc.dylib + 33325 [5C829202-962E-3744-8B50-00D38CC88E84]: 0x13
20.09.15 17:20:07,435 Live[661]: assertion failed: 14F27: libxpc.dylib + 33325 [5C829202-962E-3744-8B50-00D38CC88E84]: 0x13
20.09.15 17:20:07,441 Live[661]: assertion failed: 14F27: libxpc.dylib + 33325 [5C829202-962E-3744-8B50-00D38CC88E84]: 0x13

Maybe a few hundred of them per second? This is what happens on my computer when it gets slow and Live becomes unusable. Would be intersting to see if it is the same problem that you are experiencing.

M-bition
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by M-bition » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:42 pm

Make your 32bit samples 24bit and try again

TomViolenz
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:30 pm

florian_bl wrote:When you take a look at Console while Ableton Live is slow, do you see the whole log filled with messages likes this one?

20.09.15 17:20:07,429 Live[661]: assertion failed: 14F27: libxpc.dylib + 33325 [5C829202-962E-3744-8B50-00D38CC88E84]: 0x13
20.09.15 17:20:07,435 Live[661]: assertion failed: 14F27: libxpc.dylib + 33325 [5C829202-962E-3744-8B50-00D38CC88E84]: 0x13
20.09.15 17:20:07,441 Live[661]: assertion failed: 14F27: libxpc.dylib + 33325 [5C829202-962E-3744-8B50-00D38CC88E84]: 0x13

Maybe a few hundred of them per second? This is what happens on my computer when it gets slow and Live becomes unusable. Would be intersting to see if it is the same problem that you are experiencing.
no my log looks nothing like this:

mine looks like: (repeated over and over)
adjusting clipped position to (de,...)
Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (da,...)->(df, cc)


Whatever that may mean

TomViolenz
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:39 pm

M-bition wrote:Make your 32bit samples 24bit and try again
Why do you say that? Do you read this from the error messages?

M-bition
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by M-bition » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:41 pm

In my experience I had problems using 32bit samples in large sets. I am guessing somehow, sometimes they ask to much of IO, ram, disk-activity.
I have to say that most of my samples in my set are 5 to 7 minutes long. Lots of Mb's are loaded/run at the same time.
I try to avoid loading them in Ram for saving memory so running 8 or more of these samples asks quite a bit of your ssd and 32bit would even ask more of your resources.


It might be a lot of work at first to re-render all your samples but if I have 32bit samples now I render them to 24bit before using them in my live-set.

zigzag
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by zigzag » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:57 am

TomViolenz wrote: Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (da,...)->(df, cc)
Whatever that may mean
this may be of help...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3739611

look for the Error:... you quoted, the response from Linc

TomViolenz
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:57 am

Hm, don't know :?

That guy had the same error message and one guy suggested it's a memory leak. Then he suggests checking if any process in Activity Monitor uses more memory than the kernel_task.
Well Live does, but isn't that to be expected from an app like Live?

And then he suggests doing a diagnostic test in Terminal (which I did), but doesn't go into what that actually means.

So in the end I'm as smart as I was before :(

fishmonkey
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:37 pm

zigzag wrote:
TomViolenz wrote: Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (da,...)->(df, cc)
Whatever that may mean
this may be of help...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3739611

look for the Error:... you quoted, the response from Linc
the error is indicating you are getting buffer underuns to your audio interface, which simply means that the audio isn't being processed fast enough.

there are LOTS of different things that could cause a system stall that could result in an audio glitch. the prime candidate at the moment is still the disk overload issue...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

H20nly
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by H20nly » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:51 pm

TomViolenz wrote:Wow! This is slightly infuriating! :x

So Samsung is too lazy to make a OSX version of their Firmware update utility, so it has to run off some Dos hack AND the customer has to take care of making it bootable while suggesting to use tech (CDs DVDs) that most Macs don't even have anymore.

After searching the web near and far, I found you can also make a USB drive bootable, but for that it needs to be formatted or something, so you lose all previous data on it. (No, I don't tend to have empty ones laying around, just in case :roll: ).

Samsung must REALLY hate Apple (and its users)! :x
this is totally normal. no different than performing a clean install of OSX. and it probably helps to keep asshats from trying to run the hard drive firmware update utility on the system the drive/OS is installed on.

also, just because Apple hates CDs doesn't mean you have to act you like you cannot buy a pack of them for the price of a pack of cigarettes.

:arrow:

anyway... i don't see that you performed the update, so some advice; don't worry, you're not trashing your USB drive.

1. move whatever files you do not want to lose off of USB drive
2. format drive to required file system
3. install Samsung utilities
4. perform update
5. format drive back to original file system
6. move original files back on to USB drive

Quez
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by Quez » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:07 pm

I would try setting some audio files/tracks to "ram" to help with the disk overload issue.
Not the same but I had audio drops which prevented me from properly exporting a song, setting only one .wav track to "ram" solved the issue.
If you have a lot of ram try it on a few different files.

And also I feel that 32-bit may be a bit much. It makes for huge files.

zigzag
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by zigzag » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:38 am

TomViolenz wrote:Hm, don't know :?

That guy had the same error message and one guy suggested it's a memory leak. Then he suggests checking if any process in Activity Monitor uses more memory than the kernel_task.
Well Live does, but isn't that to be expected from an app like Live?

And then he suggests doing a diagnostic test in Terminal (which I did), but doesn't go into what that actually means.

So in the end I'm as smart as I was before :(
after lots of searching i think of two/three causes
- audio driver
- other driver issues (could be a printer driver causing the kernel size issue)
- OS version - this persists since Maverics, Yosemite. Apple have confirmed the issue with Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position. (https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... 558/page-7) el capitan should solve it.

fishmonkey
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Re: Puzzling issue - anyone know what's up?!

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:01 pm

as i said before, it's a generic error that simply means that the audio buffer was not refilled quickly enough. there are many possible causes.

the crux of the problem is that streaming audio requires fast reliable processing to keep refilling the audio buffer on time, however there is no way to guarantee enough processing time under OS X or Windows. any software or hardware that stalls the system for even a tiny fraction of a second is enough to cause a glitch...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

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