Pros & cons of playing an instrument and knowing theory

[mmorgan]

To make my point about basic music theory, I was listening to a track by Gaia and they were going through the cycle of 5ths. They clearly understood that simple music concept. They still have to master Ableton and all the different sonic possibilities, but from a song structure point of view, they used a basic concept. And to my friend who is 65, God Bless you bro. That really inspired me. Stay healthy my man.

Best to you too...

FWIW: About four months ago I finally, FINALLY, got to a point where I could say: "This is what I want my music to say."

It was a moment well worth all the effort, so keep at it my friend, the rewards are there.

[H20nly]

stringtappper, that's an 8 disc set... how can there be any cons?

[chrissobo13]

I don't see ANY cons to learning an (any/every) instrument, or learning theory. Except the loss of mystery in music, perhaps. I do firmly believe that anyone can create any music in any way they like. But that being said, there's far too much music out there that's beautifully produced, yet has no beef in the harmony/melody department. I'd rather hear some beautifully written music poorly produced, than terribly written music masterfully produced.

[pinkpaint]

its all a matter of who you are...

There are musicians who are successful who don't know much theory at all and there are musicians who are successful who live breath and die theory and there is successful musicians everywhere in between.

my advice: if your able to gradually build upon your skills each time you open live wether the gain is in theory or sound design or whatever, then just keep going at it, because as long as your improving your doing the right thing, its when the improving slows you need to say, "maybe I need to learn theory to help me with this part of my music because I am just not hitting the hammer on the nail at the moment"

PS.... if anybody is saying playing an instrument is a con in this thread (haven't read the replies) then i just lol.. it may distract you to jam out on a real instrument everyone in a while but plenty of people jam out on real vsts for a while too... soon... i mean just do what makes you happy and don't stop yourself from learning something because you are scared it will halter your creativity.. your creativity will be haltered when you try to apply new complex concepts because they are complex and unless you are a genius you will probably not be perfect at application in your first attempts at more complex things... but like all things when you keep going at it.. eventually the complex becomes... wow how was this hard to me a month ago? and having that feeling of being able to understand and do stuff musically that you couldn't a month ago makes you feel so good..

[TomViolenz]

I think people like to talk about music theory as a cornerstone of making tracks because it seems something tangible, something with rules that one can follow.
It also lets one put off the difficult things like developing a unique sound and having different perspectives.

This totally disregards that most of pop music (and certainly dance music) has such simple melodies, that if they weren't written by people who didn't know music theory, they absolutely could be.

Most people who take up music as a hobby have a good enough innate sense of what sounds good and what sounds off, that writting melodies in the monkey with a type writer manner can easily achieve the 4-8 unique bars neccessary for almost any track.
(no Schuberts needed here )

But what people often forget are the not so tangible things, without a clear right and wrong rule book, that are a lot harder to get right and to "learn". Things like rhythms, timing relations, song structure and compositions. These are what make modern dance tracks what they are. Melodies are usually just an afterthought.

[studiologic]

one can teach themselves music theory... just like one can teach themselves mathematics... but in most cases... one is better with a teacher... someone to teach them how to practice music theory...

And someone could use a calculator for most of their math problems… and somebody could also use a scale/chord plugin that passes for music theory in practice.

what is the acceleration of 9X^2 + 3x + 7...

use your calculator to figure that out...

the point i am trying to prove is you need do know what acceleration is... in mathematics.. it is the antiderivative... yes you could use a calculator to figure it out... but you need to know the THEORY first... i.e. acceleration = antiderivative... right?

another point about music theory...

in the key of C maj... you know Dmin usually resolves to G maj.... you know G maj usually resolves back to the root or E min... you know that Emin usually resolves to A min... Amin usually resolves to F maj... Fmag usually resolves to Bdim...

my main instrument is the drums... but i took lessons to learn music theory... i was taught the song Autumn Leaves... Autumn Leaves is about 80% of all western music... you take any 2, 3, 4, 5 chords in a row from the chord progression of Autumn Leaves... you will have 80% of all western music...

in conclusion, yes one could trial and error to learn this... but why... just learn Autumn Leaves and the scales/modes of the key you are working in... for me... i learned Autumn Leaves in every key and the scales/modes of all the keys... then you could get fancy... and just play Pentonic/Blues Pentonic scales over those Autumn Leaves progressions...

what happens is this takes work... one would rather use a calculator/plugin to do the work... for me... i like knowing the theory behind the calculator/plugin... because what happen when the batteries go dead in the calculator?

one would be LOST... right?

[stringtapper]

But what people often forget are the not so tangible things, without a clear right and wrong rule book, that are a lot harder to get right and to "learn". Things like rhythms, timing relations, song structure and compositions. These are what make modern dance tracks what they are. Melodies are usually just an afterthought.

Nah, those things are all tangible as well and have been theorized extensively. You just don't know about it.

Conversely that "no right or wrong" element can apply to any of the aspects that you are considering "tangible."

Part of why you might think that is because western music theory has traditionally placed more emphasis on harmony and melody.

[TomViolenz]

But what people often forget are the not so tangible things, without a clear right and wrong rule book, that are a lot harder to get right and to "learn". Things like rhythms, timing relations, song structure and compositions. These are what make modern dance tracks what they are. Melodies are usually just an afterthought.

Nah, those things are all tangible as well and have been theorized extensively. You just don't know about it.

Conversely that "no right or wrong" element can apply to any of the aspects that you are considering "tangible."

Part of why you might think that is because western music theory has traditionally placed more emphasis on harmony and melody.

I'm mostly speaking from my experience here on the boards and here the number of people fretting about music theory vs. rhythmic structures and song forms measures about 20/1

(And yes I don't don't know about any theory, I just make music and learn from experience and from what I think sounds good and so far I've always been pretty happy with my output. ) <-- response to a now deleted stealth edit

[studiologic]

for the record... music was born before music theory... just because one has a computer and music software does not make them a musician... it take talent to be a musician... not everyone has talent... if if was not for the software... most would not be making music... i.e. how many are in the school band or chorus? how many know where middle C is... that is where music theory comes in... for us LESS talented individuals... that do not have the natural skills of a musician... yes there are some who could fake it i.e. calculator/plugins... but you can usually hear it in the music... that is why you hear most saying... "TODAY'S MUSIC SUCKS"... you have untalented individuals making the music... today the best music comes from GOSPEL music... these individuals are actually playing instruments and not using calculators/plugins... with Quantizing... one is always in the groove...

again... music theory is not for everyone... it takes work... that is why individuals use calculators/plugins... they do not want to put in the work... just want to make tunes... but for a true music making... they want to know as much as possible about music... i.e. what makes music music...

[studiologic]

But what people often forget are the not so tangible things, without a clear right and wrong rule book, that are a lot harder to get right and to "learn". Things like rhythms, timing relations, song structure and compositions. These are what make modern dance tracks what they are. Melodies are usually just an afterthought.

Nah, those things are all tangible as well and have been theorized extensively. You just don't know about it.

Conversely that "no right or wrong" element can apply to any of the aspects that you are considering "tangible."

Part of why you might think that is because western music theory has traditionally placed more emphasis on harmony and melody.

I'm mostly speaking from my experience here on the boards and here the number of people fretting about music theory vs. rhythmic structures and song forms measures about 20/1

(And yes I don't don't know about any theory, I just make music and learn from experience and from what I think sounds good and so far I've always been pretty happy with my output. ) <-- response to a now deleted stealth edit

i have a question for you...


how many times have you written the same song?

dont you ever get tired of that?

[TomViolenz]

for the record... music was born before music theory... just because one has a computer and music software does not make them a musician... it take talent to be a musician... not everyone has talent... if if was not for the software... most would not be making music... i.e. how many are in the school band or chorus? how many know where middle C is... that is where music theory comes in... for us LESS talented individuals... that do not have the natural skills of a musician... yes there are some who could fake it i.e. calculator/plugins... but you can usually hear it in the music... that is why you hear most saying... "TODAY'S MUSIC SUCKS"... you have untalented individuals making the music... today the best music comes from GOSPEL music... these individuals are actually playing instruments and not using calculators/plugins... with Quantizing... one is always in the groove...

again... music theory is not for everyone... it takes work... that is why individuals use calculators/plugins... they do not want to put in the work... just want to make tunes... but for a true music making... they want to know as much as possible about music... i.e. what makes music music...

please don't confuse your rather questionable taste in music with perspective.
And besides anyone is an artist who thinks himself one.
If he can convince others of that fact, he is a successful artist.

Quality is absolutely subjective and has no bearing on art as a concept.

[TomViolenz]

i have a question for you...


how many times have you written the same song?

dont you ever get tired of that?

Why not simply click the link in my signature and try to find the answer to this question yourself.

[xbitz]

Jonathan E. Peters has a very good intro series about this topic





http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_s ... evancerank

it's on udemy too https://www.udemy.com/user/jonathanpeters/
--
another good ones is the COMPOSE YOURSELF!: Songwriting & Creative Musicianship in Four Easy Lessons
http://www.amazon.com/COMPOSE-YOURSELF- ... 1453724958

--

and a TL;DR version on http://edmprod.com/music-theory-the-tldr-version/

[studiologic]

for the record... music was born before music theory... just because one has a computer and music software does not make them a musician... it take talent to be a musician... not everyone has talent... if if was not for the software... most would not be making music... i.e. how many are in the school band or chorus? how many know where middle C is... that is where music theory comes in... for us LESS talented individuals... that do not have the natural skills of a musician... yes there are some who could fake it i.e. calculator/plugins... but you can usually hear it in the music... that is why you hear most saying... "TODAY'S MUSIC SUCKS"... you have untalented individuals making the music... today the best music comes from GOSPEL music... these individuals are actually playing instruments and not using calculators/plugins... with Quantizing... one is always in the groove...

again... music theory is not for everyone... it takes work... that is why individuals use calculators/plugins... they do not want to put in the work... just want to make tunes... but for a true music making... they want to know as much as possible about music... i.e. what makes music music...

please don't confuse your rather questionable taste in music with perspective.
And besides anyone is an artist who thinks himself one.
If he can convince others of that fact, he is a successful artist.

Quality is absolutely subjective and has no bearing on art as a concept.

i love all types of music... in my collection... i everything from Frank Zappa to Bill Buford to Earth, Wind and Fire to Return to Forever to P DIDDY/Snoop Dog... if you cant play an instrument you could not sit down with a GOSPEL group and jam with them... they play instruments... they know key changes, scales, progression, etc, etc, etc... so if you sit down and jam with a gospel group and they said let do a 12 bar blues groove in C... what are you going to play? bring out the calculator/plugin?

p.s. you could actually hear in the music... not subjective about it... well made music is well made music... you cant get around that... another... music theory help you understand what is going on musically... but if you have no clue... how would you know? right?

[stringtapper]

To make my point about basic music theory, I was listening to a track by Gaia and they were going through the cycle of 5ths. They clearly understood that simple music concept. They still have to master Ableton and all the different sonic possibilities, but from a song structure point of view, they used a basic concept. And to my friend who is 65, God Bless you bro. That really inspired me. Stay healthy my man.

what does "going through the cycle of 5ths " mean... the song was full of chord changes?

here is an example of someone who read a paragraph of music theory... and now want to explain it...

the cycle of 5th is a tool to help remember how many sharps/flats are in a scale...

simple as that...

You're showing that you may be the one who just "read a paragraph of music theory" here.

The Circle of 5ths is a tool for visually demonstrating things like key signatures and other key and chord relationships.

The Cycle of 5ths is an actual chord progression that can be realized either diatonically (staying within one key) or chromatically (moving through all keys on the Circle of 5ths).

It's a pretty simple distinction, and now you know about it.