Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:03 pm

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:I am having a lot of crashes as well with 9.5 x64 on Windows, while working on the exact same tracks in 9.5 x64 on my MacBook Pro on OSX does´t cause crashes at all.

The windows x64 version of Ableton 9.5 is buggy as hell currently and I hope they put out a stability update soon, as it´s driving me nuts at the moment. :evil:

Same with the Push 2 on windows. Have to often turn off / turn on the Push controller as it either hangs on logo or a blank screen, when loading a project.
Is it possible these instabilities in Windows are due to Max For Live problems? For Max 6 and max 7 alike? Is this so in every version of Windows? Does the version of java installed affect stability?
Also, if you install multiple versions of Live, like 9.1, 9.2 and 9.5, does simply switching between these change the proneness to crash or is it about the same?

That's what I'd like to know.
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lovelight
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by lovelight » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:22 pm

To win 10 users, try to right click the live start logo, and untick the compatibility running with win 8.


https://www.facebook.com/AbletonPushVstRacks/


win 10, 64 bit, 16 gb ram, intel 8xcore i7-4790 cpu 3.60zh, propellerhead balance
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Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 297
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:27 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote:I am having a lot of crashes as well with 9.5 x64 on Windows, while working on the exact same tracks in 9.5 x64 on my MacBook Pro on OSX does´t cause crashes at all.

The windows x64 version of Ableton 9.5 is buggy as hell currently and I hope they put out a stability update soon, as it´s driving me nuts at the moment. :evil:

Same with the Push 2 on windows. Have to often turn off / turn on the Push controller as it either hangs on logo or a blank screen, when loading a project.
Is it possible these instabilities in Windows are due to Max For Live problems? For Max 6 and max 7 alike? Is this so in every version of Windows? Does the version of java installed affect stability?
Also, if you install multiple versions of Live, like 9.1, 9.2 and 9.5, does simply switching between these change the proneness to crash or is it about the same?

That's what I'd like to know.
I have Standard Edition without Max for Live. So Max for Live is not interfering here. Nor do I run multiple versions of Live, just Live 9.5 x64.

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by pencilrocket » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:35 pm

They should give up cross platform if they can't maintain both stability. It is rather harmful for users who paid for their products.
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jbone1313
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by jbone1313 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:12 pm

lovelight wrote:To win 10 users, try to right click the live start logo, and untick the compatibility running with win 8.
Already tried both ways. Did not help me here. All my crashes seem to happen with MFL, Live 9.5 beta and non-beta, Win 10. Win 7 seems OK.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:04 pm

jbone1313 wrote: Win 7 seems OK.
Well, that sounds about right unfortunately. Maybe it's Windows 10 that needs its own purpose-built version? I suppose few are in a position to compare Win 7 and Win 10 on the same machine. Some find a relationship with Max, others with the OS or version. There are probably multiple reasons why there are crashes.

I really feel that Ableton must up the ante on troubleshooting and information gathering. If there's a crash there is a reason. It may be multifaceted and hard to find, but recurring crashes, crackles and glitches at the current level are all just unacceptable.
Guillermo Barrancos wrote: I have Standard Edition without Max for Live. So Max for Live is not interfering here.
OK. That's certainly interesting.
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jbone1313
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by jbone1313 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:00 pm

Stromkraft wrote:I really feel that Ableton must up the ante on troubleshooting and information gathering. If there's a crash there is a reason.
Absolutely agree. Even if the crash is not Live's "fault," there should still be a way to tell users what caused the crash. Like a log file or something.

I am an engineer, and I have to fix issues on my users' machines all the time even when the issue is not due to my code. But, my code has logging and logs the exceptions, so I can at least see why it is failing.

If I told my users "sorry - must be something on your machine" I would not have a job much longer. :)

I would expect Ableton to be able to tell us something like this: "Hey, we checked the logs, and it seems like the crashes are occurring when it does certain graphics operations. Can you check your graphics drivers?"

Stuff like that.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:43 pm

jbone1313 wrote:
I would expect Ableton to be able to tell us something like this: "Hey, we checked the logs, and it seems like the crashes are occurring when it does certain graphics operations. Can you check your graphics drivers?"

Stuff like that.
Yeah, but that is typically in the line of what Ableton support tells you when you supply status files and explain the problem with the sufficient details, isn't it? Possibly they could ask willing users to gather more info with developer tools like Instruments on OS X or something useful to them as well as something that can clue the user in where to search for causes.
I was more thinking of the stage before this though, when the user is trying to find what actions leads to the issue.

One method that is possible if you can forego saving — which would be natural to want to do if your have crashes — is to revert commands to a state before the problem occurs and then redo steps to see if the issue happens again.

This will work for problems that always occur with a specific set up and command sequence. Unfortunately most serious problems are more complex and will not occur every time you do the same procedure.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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concept_control
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by concept_control » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:14 pm

I'm currently experiencing this issue using OSX 10.10.

9.5 reliably crashes when trying to open a drum rack created by slicing an audio / rx2 loop using 9.2.3 or older versions. As soon as one of these racks is dragged in 9.5 is kaput. I've flagged this to support. Fingers crossed they can figure it out pronto.

lunch
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by lunch » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:03 am

Heard back from the devs a week ago. They said they still could not repro the issues with 9.5 with my set, 32 or 64 bit, but hoped to have more information very soon. Not sure how long very soon is, but it is apparently greater than one week.

In the meantime, I've been able to use 9.2.3 with a pretty good degree of reliability. I am guessing that 9.5 will never work right.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:05 am

lunch wrote: I am guessing that 9.5 will never work right.
And somewhere someone guessed that about 9.2, 9.1 as well as 8.4.

Of course it will work sooner or later, at least if Ableton keeps upping their game for finding bugs. If others, like support, can use 9.5 right now without your issues then that's hopeful at least, no? That means there's a specific reason your freezes happen. And I know it's so frustrating when you have problems like that, seemingly coming from nowhere. I had one bout of that and it took me a long time and suggestions from support to find the real cause and remove it.

Whenever I do go troubleshooting, like when I've had enough of an issue (doesn't have to be Live or even related to music) and have to find the time to just solve the problem, I go at lengths isolating the problem including booting up from other OS versions on external disks (like a USB stick), hardware, plug-ins, settings, everything really. I've nailed 99% of problems like this and quite often the issue hasn't been where I thought.

I remember one instance where I was very upset the older Waves installer was behaving like a drunken monkey and giving me serious issues that held me up. I recorded videos and answered questions from Waves support, including if I had made changes to the OS. I was sure I hadn't, but later I realized I had a little haxie for window management installed that I've completely had forgotten about, removed it and so were all issues with that installer. Humbling experience.
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killu
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by killu » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:02 pm

ONE OF MANY…..

HERE TO REPORT .. YET MORE CRASHING WITH 9.5 UPDATE … RANDOM CRASHES.. PROJECTS NOT OPENING UP…


WHY??????????????????????????????????????.. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:29 am

killu wrote:
HERE TO REPORT
OK, I suggest you provide an actual report with, you know, facts of yours.

I suggested a list of relevant data a few pages back and I still think it's all a good idea to share if you expect to get anywhere on the path of fixing the issues:
Stromkraft wrote: Data I would like to know, some of which I'm sure Ableton would like to know too, are stuff like
  • OS and version and bit
  • Processor, model and type
  • 32bit or 64bit Live and bridging solution if any
  • Any Plug-ins in use, brand and version
  • Audio Interface, driver version and firmware
  • Latency settings with sample rate
  • Common Max Devices in use
  • Max version
  • Disk type and size, including free space
  • A full description of the type of issue (and how to recreate it if known)
  • Controller used
  • Intel Speedstep settings
  • Did 9.5 improve or worsen issues (or appeared first with it?)
That could be a starting point for comparisons.
If this can be collected, maybe there is a pattern? I assume some of this has been discussed, but if all can contribute all data they have in the same way this can be compared in a useful way.

Even if Ableton need to do a lot of work, and I do assume they are doing this, tallying up data prevent you going crazy and sometimes leads to insights that can help you find a solution.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:38 am

Just updating my own data as I feel I've been advocating Speedstep hacks that might not be a solution for many and as I've now have abandoned it I should make that clear:
Stromkraft wrote: My data:
  • Processor, model, speed and type: Intel Core2Duo 2.66Ghz
  • Intel Speedstep settings: On
I've experienced no ill effects reactivating speedstep on my machine. Last spring with 9.2 I had to deactivate it because the crackle issues I had were too disturbing.
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Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Live 9.5 crashes/issues

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:50 am

Sign up for the beta program and download the new Live 9.6 beta 1 !

You can just install it seperately next to your existing live installation.

I was getting really fed up with the crashes and hang ups and was very close to throw the towel in the ring.
It was either the Focusrite 6i6 causing Ableton Live 9.5 to hang on start up or it was Push 2 causing hang up and crashes! :evil:
Every time I had to do several attempts at starting and killing ableton live to get it running.... driving me nuts and frustrated.

I was getting so desperate that I wiped my Whole system and did a clean reinstall of Windows 10, Ableton Live 9.5... everything and it was all for nothing! Problems just persisted!


So, as very last attempt, I installed Live 9.6b1 yesterday and so far, knock on wood, it runs stable! FINALLY!
So I stick to this beta version for now.

So it's worth a try if you having a lot of problems with current Live 9.5 on Windows 10 ( and/or OSX 10.11 ).

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