Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
petal
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Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by petal » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:21 pm

I admit that this info I have found under "Push 2", but does it mean that we are not getting this improvement for Push 1:

"All of your sounds, at your fingertips
Access all of Live’s devices, your third-party plug-ins, and samples. Use Push to browse, preview, and load your sounds. Get fast hands-on access to Live’s built-in devices, VST or Audio Units plug-ins, and your sample library."

Maybe I have the wrong expectations, but I thought that this meant VST's being mapped automatically to Push!?

Even just being able to map out a vst with banks and names would be a dream come true - Please tell me I'm not only dreaming?

tom_d
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by tom_d » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:58 pm

You're dreaming for now, sorry ;)

All they are referring to as I understand it is the ability to load VSTs from Push, previously they didn't appear in the list of devices/places and now they do. You can also reorder the list of parameters in the "Configure" bit and save this as a default configuration without having to mess around with racks etc. but you can't map them out into specifically named banks etc. yet.

However the foundations of being able to do that seem to be in place, so hopefully in future we will be able to map VSTs without needing third party hacks (which don't work on 9.5 currently anyway) - bit more discussion at viewtopic.php?f=55&t=201849&start=270
Ubermap: simple, free bank and parameter remapping for AudioUnit and VST devices for Push and Push 2: http://ubermap.live

petal
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by petal » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:23 pm

Damnit!

But thanks for the heads up - I'll have to cross my fingers and hope that we don't have to wait too long for these obvious features.

Cheers,
Thomas

login
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by login » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:59 pm

Live automaps a plug in if it has less than 32 parameters, if it has mroe you have to configure them yourself. You can change this in the options.txt. The order fo the parameters is the one provided by the plug in developer, which many times is not very usefull that's why it is better to configure it yourself.

https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article ... file-live/

"PluginAutoPopulateThreshold"

Auto-populates the plugin parameter list if a plugin has a number of less or equal than X parameters

Default = 32
Min = 1
Max = 128

"-1" will always populate the list with max. 128 parameters, regardless how many parameters the plugin has (= similar to Live 7 behaviour)

Supported since: 8.1.1

Example: -_PluginAutoPopulateThreshold=32

petal
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by petal » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:01 pm

OK - I didn't know about the Auto-populate feature. But still if it's more or less random, I'd really prefer to be able to name the banks and paramters that I map and create order in the mapping that way. You talk about "configuring it myself" how do I do that?

Cheers,
Thomas

login
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by login » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:46 pm

petal wrote:OK - I didn't know about the Auto-populate feature. But still if it's more or less random, I'd really prefer to be able to name the banks and paramters that I map and create order in the mapping that way. You talk about "configuring it myself" how do I do that?

Cheers,
Thomas

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/worki ... igure-mode

After you finish configuring now you can right click and "save configuration as default" so it will use it every time you load the plug in.

Banks can't be renamed still. Big request.
Last edited by login on Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yur2die4
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:54 pm

With this display situation, if they work with software developers I bet they could eventually make icons for vsts a few years down the road.

petal
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by petal » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:43 pm

Ah yeah ok - I knew about that one. Not a very elegant solution is you ask me. Why we can't name banks and configure them freely is beyond me.

But thanks for the explanation!

jestermgee
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by jestermgee » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:29 pm

I really hope they allow the ability to manage map pings like the KompleteKontrol software. That allows up to 16 banks and you can rename parameters and also the pages as well as (big thing) the ability to leave an encoder blank to group things better.

Really seems strange that there is no manager for push to allow these things.

bwax
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by bwax » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:15 pm

Just wanted to quickly chime in and say this is the exact wish I have also. The fact that it's not implemented yet is a huge reason for me not buying Push 2, yet. Come one Ableton. Seems like this weakness sticks out like a sore thumb, imo.

Funny, but it makes me look at that Native Instruments controllers a bit more! Ha. If they can do it, why not the ultra-fancy Push 2? If it is on the roadmap, I would loooove for someone at Ableton to officially address it.

If Ableton can make this aspect of controlling/customizing/mapping softsynths easy and intuitive, then they will possibly have the perfect controller - for me at least. ymmv.

tom_d
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by tom_d » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:25 pm

I had a script for Live 9.x which did allow you to map exactly like this (link in footer), a bit rough and ready but it did the trick - it won't work with 9.5 as so much of the underlying code has changed, but if an official solution isn't forthcoming in the next couple of betas then I will look if I can update it to support 9.5... custom mappings for synths really is one of those things that takes Push to the next level, so I am pretty sure Ableton will implement it soon, it looks like the foundations are in place.
Ubermap: simple, free bank and parameter remapping for AudioUnit and VST devices for Push and Push 2: http://ubermap.live

login
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by login » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:29 pm

Save as default is the first step, I really wish they go all the way. Being able to avoid wrappers for this would be great. And I think it will open up the possibility that other HW manufacturers develop better controllers for Live.

Renaming banks, and blank spaces would be welcomed, what mroe do you think is needed?

I love push but I would also like to have a "push" with keys and way more encoders.

garyboozy
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by garyboozy » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:07 pm

login wrote:Renaming banks, and blank spaces would be welcomed, what mroe do you think is needed?
yep, i'd be very happy with just those additions, BUT...

if those banks of 8 appeared just as chains do in racks currently – re-nameable, re-orderable and midi-mappable banks for quick blue-hand bank switching – then i'd be stoked stupid.
it would also bring an end to the ridiculously long vst devices that we see when 128 params are configured.

something like this...

Image

mercury007
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by mercury007 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:32 am

Agree, banks of 8 but not limited at 128 either. If a VST has 2,000 parameters, why limit what can be controlled? Just allow banks of 8s, movable, customizable, etc.

Also, we need a better library to be able to access all presets also, it's out of control.

Maybe Live should look into NKS. We are at that point now where VSTs should all be easy to control and presets should be easy to organize.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:00 am

I find improved plug-in support important enough to have made a post with a poll to Feature Wishlist: Support making VST/AUs fully user-friendly in Live. Please vote!
Make some music!

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