Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
login
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by login » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:16 am

mercury007 wrote:Agree, banks of 8 but not limited at 128 either. If a VST has 2,000 parameters, why limit what can be controlled? Just allow banks of 8s, movable, customizable, etc.

Also, we need a better library to be able to access all presets also, it's out of control.

Maybe Live should look into NKS. We are at that point now where VSTs should all be easy to control and presets should be easy to organize.
The preset part is harder because developers have to comply with the standard, right now the standard exists as it is specified by the VST SDK but developers don't adopt it fully. I hope NI has success there, if they do the NS thing may open the door for other improvements.

tom_d
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by tom_d » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:51 am

mercury007 wrote:Agree, banks of 8 but not limited at 128 either. If a VST has 2,000 parameters, why limit what can be controlled? Just allow banks of 8s, movable, customizable, etc.
I might be wrong but I think the 128 limit is a vst spec thing so there's not much Ableton can do about it
Ubermap: simple, free bank and parameter remapping for AudioUnit and VST devices for Push and Push 2: http://ubermap.live

Transienta
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:02 am

Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Transienta » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:54 am

tom_d wrote: I might be wrong but I think the 128 limit is a vst spec thing so there's not much Ableton can do about it

No, it's an Ableton Live thing. No other plugin host I've seen has this limitation.

Gylen
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Gylen » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:46 am

I had a small question about this, based on the update but it's probably not worth a thread on its own so will just stick it here if that's ok?

I use Arturia VDM drum machine quite a lot, and obviously loading this as a VST puts Push into note mode, rather than drum sequencing mode. I can get around this by creating a drum rack and instantiating the plug in there, and setting it to receive on all channels, but it's inelegant and a bit of an ugly solution.

Now I can browse and load VDM from Push, which is brilliant, but of course it loads as an instrument in note mode.

Is there a way to define what 'sort' of VST instrument you are loading if it's from a third party? It would be the best thing ever if I could use Push to load it up and have it appear as a drum rack, ready for sequencing a beat without having having to touch the laptop...

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:37 am

Gylen wrote: Is there a way to define what 'sort' of VST instrument you are loading if it's from a third party? It would be the best thing ever if I could use Push to load it up and have it appear as a drum rack, ready for sequencing a beat without having having to touch the laptop...
I have simply made a Live preset with a default setting for my drums utilizing Tremor, Battery as well as samples as for all instruments and load those instead. I assume you know about making drum racks for a plug-in, but if not my last post here Re: Drumracks with VST support and an extra Push improvement describe my basic set up. I think there's also at least 2 more detailed descriptions elsewhere.
Make some music!

Gylen
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Gylen » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:43 am

Stromkraft wrote:
Gylen wrote: Is there a way to define what 'sort' of VST instrument you are loading if it's from a third party? It would be the best thing ever if I could use Push to load it up and have it appear as a drum rack, ready for sequencing a beat without having having to touch the laptop...
I have simply made a Live preset with a default setting for my drums utilizing Tremor, Battery as well as samples as for all instruments and load those instead. I assume you know about making drum racks for a plug-in, but if not my last post here Re: Drumracks with VST support and an extra Push improvement describe my basic set up. I think there's also at least 2 more detailed descriptions elsewhere.

That's brilliant, Stromkraft!

I have made drum racks for a plugin but not to the level of depth you've gone to there - I was always just loading the VST into one cell and then setting the input to 'all' meaning I was stuck with whatever notes it gave me being assigned to the pads. Your setup is much better so I will take the time to digest that and understand it later.

A quick supplementary question - does that give you the option to alter the drum sounds in the VST via Push too? I'd quite like to be able to for example, load up a 909 and then decide I'd rather a Linndrum and be able to just change a parameter with Push that selects the new kit. All the VDM kits follow the same sort of pattern anyway so I guess it should be possible...

Thanks again!

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:06 am

Gylen wrote:does that give you the option to alter the drum sounds in the VST via Push too? I'd quite like to be able to for example, load up a 909 and then decide I'd rather a Linndrum and be able to just change a parameter with Push that selects the new kit. All the VDM kits follow the same sort of pattern anyway so I guess it should be possible...
Well, I've extracted all chains to their own full track/channel and on that I have to do selections manually I think. Hmmm, I'd prefer what you describe. Let me get back on this when I've had a chance to actually use 9.5.
Make some music!

bwax
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by bwax » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:24 pm

garyboozy wrote:
login wrote:Renaming banks, and blank spaces would be welcomed, what mroe do you think is needed?
yep, i'd be very happy with just those additions, BUT...

if those banks of 8 appeared just as chains do in racks currently – re-nameable, re-orderable and midi-mappable banks for quick blue-hand bank switching – then i'd be stoked stupid.
it would also bring an end to the ridiculously long vst devices that we see when 128 params are configured.

something like this...

Image
Looks good.

I'd also be happy with just being able to rename banks and blank space needed. I guess it goes without saying, but also make it very easy to reorder everything.

A nice addition would be to have a fold out window, like they have for EQ, that gives access to a large overview of everything with ability to quickly drag&drop banks, parameters, and blank spaces, and rename anything, color code anything, maybe eventually include a set of icons to choose from for quick visual cues with the Push 2 screen (such as waveforms, etc.), etc.

If an Abletonian could say this is in the works, I'd order tonight. As it is, I've learned my lesson about ordering gear and hoping things will be included down the road (even seemingly obvious things).

tedlogan
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by tedlogan » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:58 pm

bwax wrote:
garyboozy wrote:
login wrote:Renaming banks, and blank spaces would be welcomed, what mroe do you think is needed?
yep, i'd be very happy with just those additions, BUT...

if those banks of 8 appeared just as chains do in racks currently – re-nameable, re-orderable and midi-mappable banks for quick blue-hand bank switching – then i'd be stoked stupid.
it would also bring an end to the ridiculously long vst devices that we see when 128 params are configured.

something like this...

Image
Looks good.

I'd also be happy with just being able to rename banks and blank space needed. I guess it goes without saying, but also make it very easy to reorder everything.

A nice addition would be to have a fold out window, like they have for EQ, that gives access to a large overview of everything with ability to quickly drag&drop banks, parameters, and blank spaces, and rename anything, color code anything, maybe eventually include a set of icons to choose from for quick visual cues with the Push 2 screen (such as waveforms, etc.), etc.

If an Abletonian could say this is in the works, I'd order tonight. As it is, I've learned my lesson about ordering gear and hoping things will be included down the road (even seemingly obvious things).
All of this is exactly what I'd like. The purpose won't really be for sound design from scratch, as I much prefer the mouse for that, but I do like to occasionally tweak some synth settings to be more suitable to whatever I'm working on from Push.

The current "save as default" is rudimentary, but I do like the way it's going at least, and it has been useful so far. No more preset racks for me.

TheTechnobear
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by TheTechnobear » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:47 pm

I too was disappointed with the 9.5, VST Push changes... I expected to be able to group and name parameters...
I think this is reasonable to expect on a controller priced as Push 2 is, so I hope this is the start not the end of the VST improvements.

Transienta
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Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by Transienta » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:15 am

TheTechnobear wrote:I too was disappointed with the 9.5, VST Push changes... I expected to be able to group and name parameters...
I think this is reasonable to expect on a controller priced as Push 2 is, so I hope this is the start not the end of the VST improvements.
Hear Hear.

bwax
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:43 pm

Re: Live 9.5: Get fast hands-on access to... VST's they say

Post by bwax » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:27 pm

TheTechnobear wrote:I too was disappointed with the 9.5, VST Push changes... I expected to be able to group and name parameters...
I think this is reasonable to expect on a controller priced as Push 2 is, so I hope this is the start not the end of the VST improvements.
Key! Absolutely right.

I know companies are different and do things their own way, but I like how Elektron has made a roadmap for OverBridge development, publicly stating certain features will be available now in 1.0, then updates sometime soon-ish for other features, and so on. I like that. Gives me confidence when investing in these tools. If Ableton would speak up and say this type of aforementioned plugin control is coming, I'd find room in my budget for Push 2 immediately.

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