Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:50 pm

borg wrote:well... in the case of two processors:

track 1: plugins consume 45% of CPU 1
track 2: plugins consume 5% of CPU 2
track 3: plugins consume 45% of CPU 1
track 4: plugins consume 10% of CPU 2
this results in a CPU 1 load of 90% and CPU 2 load of 15%

if you move track 2 behind track 3 (so 2 becomes 3, and 3 becomes 2) CPU 1 load becomes 50% and CPU 2 load will be 55%.
something to consider if your hitting ceilings.
Yeah, but I was referring to more typical 30 tracks. I don't think you can second guess Live and the OS on how to distribute the work load after a certain number of tracks. You also have plug-ins with multi-core support which could offset things.

Nevertheless for certain situations this could possibly make some sense. However, I'd question that you can know for sure that that moving a certain track will always move the load to another core. It's perfectly possible that Live keeps another numerical view of tracks than the order they have in the browser and this could also be dynamic and not fixed. But I'll experiment. But with such small differences I'd question if you can know for sure exactly which processes also running the machine that is causing the load.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:04 pm

pencilrocket wrote:when will we get up-to-date multicore support like other &200+ DAWs? :cry:
What other DAWs spread the load over multiple cores differently from what Live does? Please be specific and if you can post an official link. that'd be useful.
As spreading the load over cores in a real-time system can be very expensive resources-wise, I don't see how it can be done without any performance penalties at all. But I'd be curious to learn.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ImNotDedYet
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by ImNotDedYet » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:26 pm

My guess is, this is very situation dependent.

There comes a point with multi-processing, where the benefit of using multiple CPUs is actually a detriment to overall system performance. At times, it actually takes more time managing what goes to which CPU and how much of it, etc. than it does to just have everything running on a single core. At what point this occurs is largely dependent on what processing needs are currently occurring on your computer, algorithms used, etc.

Moral of the story - sometimes turning off multi-processing will help, and others it likely won't. ;)

ash1
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by ash1 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:39 pm

Multi-core for me never works i just switch it off maybe in future updates it will work who knows

pencilrocket
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:41 am

Stromkraft wrote:
pencilrocket wrote:when will we get up-to-date multicore support like other &200+ DAWs? :cry:
What other DAWs spread the load over multiple cores differently from what Live does? Please be specific and if you can post an official link. that'd be useful.
As spreading the load over cores in a real-time system can be very expensive resources-wise, I don't see how it can be done without any performance penalties at all. But I'd be curious to learn.
Google... or at least search this forum... 100 of 100 users are reporting Live's poor multicore support. 1 of 101 (he isn't actual user rofl) would be claiming Live has better multicore support.

If you don't believe them, just open Reaper, Logic, Cubase etc and compare. It explains itself.

fishmonkey
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by fishmonkey » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:43 am

again, directly comparing the performance of other linear DAWs is not reasonable. the only comparable DAW is Bitwig Studio.
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pencilrocket
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:48 am

Why? If we are talking about arrangement view that should be fine. Or should we compare Live with Audacity too? :lol:

Stromkraft
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:23 am

pencilrocket wrote: Google... or at least search this forum...
I only found reports on Bitwig being a bad multicore player here.

You seem to refuse to even explain what you mean. Unless you are putting really heavy requirements on your machine how often do you go up against "poor multicore" support specifically?

That you go up against a performance limitation for one core is to be expected. If Ableton have made a decision to not spread a given track to other cores I don't see how that must be unwise. As far as I know Live doesn't prevent multicore operation of specific plug-ins either. Some need to have this turned on. Some do worse with it on though. This what you mean?

Poor multicore support to me is if it works badly or not at all, not if it works as designed. Of course other models for multicore support could be better, but the question remains what models are these?

I plan to test something else just for comparison reasons for how Reaktor works in other systems, but please be more specific.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:29 am

keyman_sam wrote:
With all the stuttering I tried turning off Multicore support and lo-and-behold it actually got rid of a lot of the audio glitches. THe CPU now runs at 65-70% as opposed to 45% but the performance seems noticeably improved.

What should I gather from this? Is Ableton poorly optimized for multi-core support? Any solution I can try? I've played way bigger projects in Reaper without any glitches, so it can't be the computer. In fact as far as I can remember this is the first time I'm experiencing performance related problems in this computer. HELP!!
Have you discussed this with support? I got great help from them on performance issues like this. The problem here is that there could be many reasons and whatever we other users write it must be viewed as speculation in most cases.
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ash1
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by ash1 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:47 am

i have a Multi-core cpu all i know is when i turn on Multi-core in ableton it never works
and never has and thats not speculation thats fact
it seems to me that Multi-core in ableton is hit and miss as far as people getting it to work is concerned
i turn mine off and all is well so im not fussed either way :D

pencilrocket
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:20 am

Stromkraft wrote:
pencilrocket wrote: Google... or at least search this forum...
I only found reports on Bitwig being a bad multicore player here.
Really?...
As far as I know Live doesn't prevent multicore operation of specific plug-ins either. Some need to have this turned on. Some do worse with it on though. This what you mean?
I'm not saying multicore isn't supported by Live. It performs relatively poor than the other DAWs. Easily crackable and stutterable.

lovelight
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by lovelight » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:37 am

Im running the latest beta version, and there is quite a change if its on or off. But my heavy cpu hungry vst,s coughs and crackle while running live, they are now unplayable, Serum and Diva, they go far beyond 100 % with certain presets, before with Live 9.2 it was max 20 % and no Crackle what so ever.




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keyman_sam
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by keyman_sam » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:06 am

Inversoundzzz wrote:live can only assign one of the 4 cores to a single track....so if you have tons of stuff on one track....and you only have one track in your project, that could actually max it out. then if you have 4 tracks with tons of stuff...it will just be the same but multiplied...but if you have 4 tracks with not much stuff.....compared to a single track with tons of stuff...then you will probably have less cpu usage

so the cpu usage is only as good as the one core can handle...but you can handle 4x that amount because of the 4 cores. but each one is exclusive
I don't have anything fancy in my tracks. My most complicated track is probably an audio track with EQ, compressor, some Max plugin, and maybe a limiter.

Get this - I have ONE instance of omnisphere, ONE instance of EW Play, ONE instance of Kontakt. Those are the only 3 VSTis in my project. The rest are audio tracks containing bounces from these VSTis and a few instances of Live's native plugs (I'd count them out if my damn project would open). Is this too much to ask? On Reaper my computer would chew through this project like a lazy sunday afternoon snack.

I mean, seriously - how are people working in Live 9.5? Just raw audio clips? :|

pencilrocket
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by pencilrocket » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:26 am

repetitious track freezing? :?

keyman_sam
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by keyman_sam » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:57 am

Stromkraft wrote:
keyman_sam wrote:
With all the stuttering I tried turning off Multicore support and lo-and-behold it actually got rid of a lot of the audio glitches. THe CPU now runs at 65-70% as opposed to 45% but the performance seems noticeably improved.

What should I gather from this? Is Ableton poorly optimized for multi-core support? Any solution I can try? I've played way bigger projects in Reaper without any glitches, so it can't be the computer. In fact as far as I can remember this is the first time I'm experiencing performance related problems in this computer. HELP!!
Have you discussed this with support? I got great help from them on performance issues like this. The problem here is that there could be many reasons and whatever we other users write it must be viewed as speculation in most cases.
Yes - sent the crash report to them and waiting for a response.

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