mixer?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Pieter-91
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:02 pm

mixer?

Post by Pieter-91 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:09 pm

Hey you guys,

I've got a question.
I'm using some analog synths for a while now, and i use Ableton for the effects on them.
Problem is that analog synths are pretty addictive, so it means i'm getting more and more of them. :p
My question now is, what mixer should be the best option if i want the following things.

- Connect al the synths to the mixer.
- A separate channel for each synth in Live
- Maybe even route channels from Live to the outboard mixer, so i can control them there.

Any help here, it's not that i'm not good at this stuff.
I just don't have enough knowledge about mixers in conjunction with a daw.

Oh yeah, and i'm on a budget. :p (aaaand there i blew it, haha)

Greetings
Pieter

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: mixer?

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:20 pm

Pieter-91 wrote:Hey you guys,

I've got a question.
I'm using some analog synths for a while now, and i use Ableton for the effects on them.
Problem is that analog synths are pretty addictive, so it means i'm getting more and more of them. :p
My question now is, what mixer should be the best option if i want the following things.

- Connect al the synths to the mixer.
- A separate channel for each synth in Live
- Maybe even route channels from Live to the outboard mixer, so i can control them there.
You could do this is multiple ways, but personally I'd go for all digital mixing in Live and using a Mackie or another mixer controller for controlling the Live mixer. For the inputs from the synths and other sound sources I'd rely on an audio interface with as many inputs I'd need. RME Audio or Metric Halo comes to mind (though never used the latter with Live).

If you're more into a complete audio mixer I'd suggest looking at Allen & Heath, Mackie or similar. We got a Mackie in the studio but hardly use it for mixing as there is no reliable recall really in that particular model.

To a large part your desired work process should be a factor in addition to the sound possibilities.
Make some music!

Pieter-91
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: mixer?

Post by Pieter-91 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Pieter-91 wrote:Hey you guys,

I've got a question.
I'm using some analog synths for a while now, and i use Ableton for the effects on them.
Problem is that analog synths are pretty addictive, so it means i'm getting more and more of them. :p
My question now is, what mixer should be the best option if i want the following things.

- Connect al the synths to the mixer.
- A separate channel for each synth in Live
- Maybe even route channels from Live to the outboard mixer, so i can control them there.
You could do this is multiple ways, but personally I'd go for all digital mixing in Live and using a Mackie or another mixer controller for controlling the Live mixer. For the inputs from the synths and other sound sources I'd rely on an audio interface with as many inputs I'd need. RME Audio or Metric Halo comes to mind (though never used the latter with Live).

If you're more into a complete audio mixer I'd suggest looking at Allen & Heath, Mackie or similar. We got a Mackie in the studio but hardly use it for mixing as there is no reliable recall really in that particular model.

To a large part your desired work process should be a factor in addition to the sound possibilities.

Hey, thanks for the reply.
I'm using a Saffire Firewire interface but it only has 4 usable ins an 4 usable outs. And no ADAT connection.
So that's a bit of a bummer, but for now it works just fine for me. It's just that i'm thinking ahead.
I was kind of planning on buying multiple Behringer BCF2000's and put some creative handcraft in them to make one mixing desk out of them.
And then in the future get an interface with more inputs and ADAT connect ability.
Do you think that would be a good solution for what i'm trying to do here.
Cool thing with the Behringer controller is that i can map any fader and knob to anything i want in live, so even channels i was thinking on "routing back to the outboard mixer" like send channels for example.

Hungry_Man
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:46 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: mixer?

Post by Hungry_Man » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:01 pm

Hi Pieter

I've been doing research around the same issue. I'm creating a live setup that uses analog synths and Ableton for effects. This never used to be possible because of latency but now latency is so low. I was looking at getting a Korg Zero8 desk but it is quite old now, made in 2007 and also I read some very bad reviews.

I am using Allen & Heath Xone:k1 as the digital mixing desk. There are lots of buttons for launch control as well or you could use them to toggle send / insert effects on / off.

the K1 is much narrower than the BCF2000 so you could fit more in your setup. they are quite cheap too. I guess it depends if you need motorised faders or not.

I have a MOTU audio express soundcard but am looking to expand inputs to allow me to use analog external effects as well as internal.

All the best

HAgop

smutek
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Re: mixer?

Post by smutek » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:07 am

I've been researching a similar setup myself.

Currently I'm doing something similar to Hungry_Man, using hardware instruments and Ableton for some effects, mixing, and as a master clock source. I just got a Lexicon MX200, so the last recording I made I only used 1 Ableton effect.

I'm running Touchable on a second gen iPad and that's been serving as my mixer. I've got levels on the bottom row and sends on the top row. It's quite nice, but I'm looking forward to adding a hardware mixer to the mix.

My dream requirements are at least 2 fx send / returns and individual inserts for each channel. Individual outputs would be cool too. Here's what I've been looking at -

Soundcraft Signature 12MTK ~ $450

http://www.soundcraft.com/products/signature-12-MTK

This looks really slick and is priced attractively, biggest question for me is, will it ever ship? Current ship date is mid March, 2016. It's got a 14 in 12 out soundcard on board, so each channel can independently send audio to and receive it back from the DAW. So, if I understand correctly, each channel has it's own USB insert. I'm not really looking for on-board effects, but they are Lexicon effects and if they sound like my MX-200 then I'd be pretty happy with that.

Roland MX-1 - ~ $600

http://www.roland.com/products/mx-1/

Looks pretty nice as well, but seems like the less Roland gear you have, Aira stuff in particular, the less useful it is. I've got all 4 Volcas and one of the Roland JU-06's. From what I've read the JU-06 can utilize one of the USB ports, so I feel like this would work pretty well with my setup. I've read mixed reviews from owners though, so I'm on the fence, and this is the high end of what I'm looking to spend.

However, all told, it looks like it would be a blast to play with. I could hook all my stuff up to it, and I can see myself possibly getting a System 1 and a TR-8 down the road - so this is really tempting.

Keith McMillen K-Mix - ~ $579

http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/k-mix/

I swear every time I come back to look at this thing the price has gone up. Looks pretty cool, and lines up well with the "mixer as instrument' kind of mentality, but Jesus, it's ugly. I've also heard that those touch strips on the Keith McMillen stuff can really be hit or miss. People either love them or hate them.


Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ4 12:2
- ~ $too much

http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/m ... -wz4-12-2/

Also outside of my price range, but worth a mention.

Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2 AI - ~ $way too much

https://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-1642AI

Way more than I need and way outside of my price range, but.... yeah.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1302
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: mixer?

Post by jlgrimes » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:04 pm

Pieter-91 wrote:Hey you guys,

I've got a question.
I'm using some analog synths for a while now, and i use Ableton for the effects on them.
Problem is that analog synths are pretty addictive, so it means i'm getting more and more of them. :p
My question now is, what mixer should be the best option if i want the following things.

- Connect al the synths to the mixer.
- A separate channel for each synth in Live
- Maybe even route channels from Live to the outboard mixer, so i can control them there.

Any help here, it's not that i'm not good at this stuff.
I just don't have enough knowledge about mixers in conjunction with a daw.

Oh yeah, and i'm on a budget. :p (aaaand there i blew it, haha)

Greetings
Pieter
I'd invest in an 8 channel Audio interface and plug my synths in there. Most Audio Interfaces have built-in software mixers where you can adjust levels from there. This way you can easily record synths in your DAW quickly and not have to worry about gain staging via a mixer. Also mixers usually take up more space than an interface.


The biggest drawbacks are lack of faders/built-in EQ/routing a mixer would give you but you have to ask yourself if you really need that. Another disadvantage is on most interfaces, if you power down your Computer, you won't be able to jam out on your hardware synths because your audio-interface would be powered down.

Some interfaces though can be ran without a computer in certain modes though, so that might not be a big deal as well depending on your interface.



Also many interfaces can be expanded via adat I/O buying something like a behringer ada 8000 to get you 8 more channels, so in esscence you could have like 16-18 i/o on most standard 8 channel audio interfaces kind of making a mixer unnecessary.

chapelier fou
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: mixer?

Post by chapelier fou » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:42 pm

I've got a soundcraft Spirit M12. I love it and it has Direct Outs. One wire to record them all.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

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