the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Grill Pheiss
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the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:14 pm

Coming from a couple of other DAWs, I love ableton! It absolutelly brought back the LUDIC aspect of music/beat/instrumental composition and experimentation, but when
the time comes to shift into "production" mode, my experience is I just waste too much time particularilly when it comes to simple basic tasks, like
tracking/editing audio and midi, and mixing.

I have been using it extensivelly for instrumental production for the last 2 year and a half, I feel I gathered a fairly deep knowledge of it's mecanics.
So here's a list that I think most people coming from more "regular" environements will understand... If you started in Live from the get-go the
following won't ring any bell I think... but trust me, you don't know what you're missing then :)


- No Nudging of clips (by the sample/millisecond etc)


- Poor Fades/Crossfade implementation, makes users work too much to edit audio clips, and having to turn fades on feels like the whole thing has been
"hacked in"


- Midi note editor is tied to midi CLIPS, and not to midi TRACKS, so confusion takes over quickly when editing a track containing multiple midi clips/regions
that have not been bounced and consolidated together. It's kinda forcing you to commit very early-on in order not to be constantly switching from clip
to clip in the arrange window to edit the whole midi part.


- No disabling of automation... your only option is to DELETE it if you need to do without it temporarily for this or that reason/task


- There's no way to have a global view of all the plugins that are in your project, ableton limits it to all the plugins on one track, at all times.

Somewhat of a solution : About devices overview, this might help: http://www.resoundsound.com/ableton-liv ... on-tracks/
Unstable and causes LAG in loading/unloading of plugins and plugin navigation within the browser




- No usable zooming of waveforms in any view (actually some people use the CLIP GAIN function in order to see what they`re doing, I wonder how many speakers
have blown up by inadvertence with that misfeature :)


- Having to turn "on" audition for every single midi clip manually when editing midi events...


- No proper customization of keyboard shortcuts... record button is :F9! ... deal with it users!! :)


- Awckward step recording mode... so much so that it`s actually easier to enter the notes by mouse than by step recording, wich is a feature other DAW`s
have had right for decades. I don't think there was no need to try change the basics of it but by wanting to allow users to also control duration of
notes while step recording, they made it a bit too clunky, loosing it's purpous -


- No numerical reading of peak volumes in arrangement view


- Audio browser/preview browser can`t be freely routed, thus disregarding basic issues like people who are using a room correction vst, or people who
are working with a masterchain and need to hear whatever additional audio they want to add IN CONTEXT of their production.


- Extremelly limited zooming possibility in arrangement view and overall it`s difficult to see what you`re doing most of the time compared to other
daw`s, precise layering tasks are quite painful in Live, and above all : No scrollwheel zoom in arrangement view!


- Since even in arrangement view you`re actually dealing with clips and not regular audio tracks, sometimes when slip-editing tiny portions of audio you
will find yourself limited to a certain range! it`s impossibe for example to work with tiny tiny regions, wich is pretty common when doing sound design.
you`ll have to cut the clip because there's a limit to the slip editing
capability.


- In mixer view when full screen it`s easy to make mistakes because track labelling is high up there on top of the clip row and faders are all the way
down, having to loop up/Down constantly gets you to make mistake and gets confusing quickly.


- No Layering of midi/audio within single midi/audio tracks, hence limiting the editing capabilities of Live quite immenselly... I rely on another DAW for this task.


- No bounce in place


-When consolidating clips, Ableton normalizes audio, then drops the gain to adjust to the pre-consolidation level... and if you Ctrl-J like a maniac
like me you start wondering about the amount of math being applied to your audio. and there's no way around that...


-Enveloppe points don't snap to the grid in Arrangement view



The preceding is not a feature request list... But I'm just stating things that many of us struggle with while using AND LOVING Live and I think the more general
question is this:

WILL ableton be moving towards a more "pro" and ALL IN ONE application/solution so that some of us don't feel like we have to export our sessions outside of
Live in order to complete them more quickly in another more "production tailored" environement, or not?


Personally, I just want an answer! wether the answer is Yes/No doesn't matter...

but since I'm investing a lot of time in the software, I would like to know.
Last edited by Grill Pheiss on Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:32 pm, edited 18 times in total.

tedlogan
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by tedlogan » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:27 pm

About devices overview, this might help:

http://www.resoundsound.com/ableton-liv ... on-tracks/

-it shows you all plugins/devices per track in session view.

And I am irritated by having to turn on audition in MIDI clips too.

slatepipe
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by slatepipe » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:04 pm

yeah the crossfades from clip to clip in the same track are fucking shit. the only other DAW i use is Reaper, the crossfades in that are amazing, with the track free item positioning too

i WISH you could use the scrollwheel to zoom in and out too

other than that though, i'm happy

Grill Pheiss
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:13 pm

tedlogan wrote:About devices overview, this might help:

http://www.resoundsound.com/ableton-liv ... on-tracks/

-it shows you all plugins/devices per track in session view.

And I am irritated by having to turn on audition in MIDI clips too.
Cool I'll update the list with the link, as long as the workaround is valid people should know about it...
I don't use the console view much though, I wish this could be done in arrangement view as well but
with the actual layout things would get messy quickly I gather

Idonotlikebroccoli
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Idonotlikebroccoli » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:51 pm

- There's no layered MIDI editing.
- What looks like a centred pitch bend value might not be if the previous clip ended with a pitch slide.
Please vote! Live 10's "multi" clip editing should allow selection+editing of multiple clips in one action:

(L10-SUG-0228) Multiple MIDI transpose

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=228094

H20nly
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by H20nly » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:00 pm

No disabling of automation... your only option is to DELETE it if you need to do without it temporarily for this or that reason/task
For this, you could duplicate the track and then delete automation on the duplicate. toggle mute on the original and duplicated track to A/B.

hackish workaround I know, but no too hard to do.

Grill Pheiss
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:51 pm

Idonotlikebroccoli wrote:- There's no layered MIDI editing.
- What looks like a centred pitch bend value might not be if the previous clip ended with a pitch slide.
will add the layered to the list, however the pitch thing sounds more like a bug no?

Grill Pheiss
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:56 pm

H20nly wrote:
No disabling of automation... your only option is to DELETE it if you need to do without it temporarily for this or that reason/task
For this, you could duplicate the track and then delete automation on the duplicate. toggle mute on the original and duplicated track to A/B.

hackish workaround I know, but no too hard to do.
true but like you said, more of a hack than a practical solution, and there's many other reasons why we would want to turn off automation momentarily
than just A/B'ing, and on many tracks at a time so this hack can get a session messy quickly

jlgrimes
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by jlgrimes » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:21 pm

Grill Pheiss wrote:Coming from a couple of other DAWs, I love
- Awckward step recording mode... so much so that it`s actually easier to enter the notes by mouse than by step recording, wich is a feature other DAW`s
have had right for decades. I don't think there was no need to try change the basics of it but by wanting to allow users to also control duration of
notes while step recording, they made it a bit too clunky, loosing it's purpous -

I agree. I was initially excited about this feature but when I found out that you needed to rely on the directional arrows with the midi keyboard, this implementation became clunky.


Here are some ones I have:

1. No way to set default new midi clip length. It would be nice if this could default to something like 2 or 4 bar clips to make the track creation process a bit quicker than having to manually adjust clip sizes with a mouse. The duplicate command makes this process a bit easier though than how it was before 9.

2. No gain reduction meter on the built-in compressor. Otherwise a great compressor.

3. No ability to record quantize with strength or change record quantize settings with key commands.

mholloway
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by mholloway » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:16 pm

....but where the FU&! is BOUNCE IN PLACE!


-M 8)
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:38 pm

jlgrimes wrote:s process a bit easier though than how it was before 9.

2. No gain reduction meter on the built-in compressor. Otherwise a great compressor
Well, there is also the issue with clicks when side-chaining some material. This extends to the Glue as well — to my surprise — and not at all to most of the other compressors I use even when I use quite similar settings. And no, it's not dependent on attack times.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Grill Pheiss
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:46 pm

mholloway wrote:....but where the FU&! is BOUNCE IN PLACE!


-M 8)
true

added

Grill Pheiss
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:48 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
jlgrimes wrote:s process a bit easier though than how it was before 9.

2. No gain reduction meter on the built-in compressor. Otherwise a great compressor
Well, there is also the issue with clicks when side-chaining some material. This extends to the Glue as well — to my surprise — and not at all to most of the other 18 compressors I use even when I use quite similar settings. And no, it's not dependent on attack times.

probably a bug wouldn't you say?

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:10 pm

Grill Pheiss wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
jlgrimes wrote: 2. No gain reduction meter on the built-in compressor. Otherwise a great compressor
Well, there is also the issue with clicks when side-chaining some material. This extends to the Glue as well — to my surprise — and not at all to most of the other 18 compressors I use even when I use quite similar settings. And no, it's not dependent on attack times.

probably a bug wouldn't you say?
Yes, but it's there. I was sure it didn't exist and then there it was. Another good reason to have a compressor collection. On the other hand don't get me started on third party SC support.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:57 pm

Grill Pheiss wrote:
tedlogan wrote:About devices overview, this might help:

http://www.resoundsound.com/ableton-liv ... on-tracks/

-it shows you all plugins/devices per track in session view.

And I am irritated by having to turn on audition in MIDI clips too.
Cool I'll update the list with the link, as long as the workaround is valid people should know about it...
I don't use the console view much though, I wish this could be done in arrangement view as well but
with the actual layout things would get messy quickly I gather
This method may causes instability problems so it's not a good idea I think. Also, someone claimed recently this doesn't work any more. I haven't checked as I stopped using this after that was suggested by Ableton support when I had problems. I've also heard from others encountering the same issues.
Make some music!

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