the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Grill Pheiss
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Grill Pheiss » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:04 am

Stromkraft wrote:
Grill Pheiss wrote:
tedlogan wrote:About devices overview, this might help:

http://www.resoundsound.com/ableton-liv ... on-tracks/

-it shows you all plugins/devices per track in session view.

And I am irritated by having to turn on audition in MIDI clips too.
Cool I'll update the list with the link, as long as the workaround is valid people should know about it...
I don't use the console view much though, I wish this could be done in arrangement view as well but
with the actual layout things would get messy quickly I gather
This method may causes instability problems so it's not a good idea I think. Also, someone claimed recently this doesn't work any more. I haven't checked as I stopped using this after that was suggested by Ableton support when I had problems. I've also heard from others encountering the same issues.
Working in 9.5, and YES it is unstable, causes lag with the whole plugin tree in the browser and lag when loading/unloading plugins.

djmagit
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by djmagit » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:07 am

Bounce in place is a critical missing feature.

mpr47563634
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by mpr47563634 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:05 am

my only real problem with Ableton Live is that I'd like a proper mixing desk like Reason, with everything you need like master compressor, filters, gates etc.

Angstrom
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Angstrom » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:25 pm

Probably my main problem with Ableton is a general trend of them leaving features uncompleted.

My go-to illustrations of this would be

#1: Info texts. The meta-notes we can add on every element. These would be really useful if anyone knew they were there! Very handy way to pass notes to collaborators, or illustrating tutorial sets. Sadly the last 20% of implementation went un-done. There is no indicator for an element having notes,the browser search no longer searches notes, and notes cannot have formatting.

#2: The browser. The database for this shows a lot of scope for complex queries (get me all racks where author is "angstrom" and creation date is between "2012-2014" and info text contains the words "Beaty OR Beat OR rhythmic OR Pulsating")- but what we got was severely limited. It just about works most of the time. Now you would imagine that L10 would complete the browser with a nice interface to all these functions. Just like the Max 7 browser has. But experience says it will remain incomplete.

#3: the Looper. A nearly great device where only half the controls can be mapped to midi, or macros. Most of the controls don't even record to the arrangement so what you record is never what you hear back!

#4: the rack overview. Hover over the bottom right of the rack, that little window there with the tiny picture of your rack devices, right click and you'll see a tree view of your complex rack with all the device names nested. Click on a device and you will go to it. I suspect this was nearly a more developed feature - but never completed.

I know the developers are very excited about starting new projects, but I wish there was a department of finishing things off

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:02 pm

mpr47563634 wrote:my only real problem with Ableton Live is that I'd like a proper mixing desk like Reason, with everything you need like master compressor, filters, gates etc.
Yeah, that's impossible to overcome by adding devices to the tracks too. What was Ableton thinking?
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:10 pm

Angstrom wrote:Probably my main problem with Ableton is a general trend of them leaving features uncompleted.

…experience says it will remain incomplete.

I know the developers are very excited about starting new projects, but I wish there was a department of finishing things off
Yes, in a development team the project manager normally has the role to decide what gets done and a part of a new version. I have no idea on how the Ableton development team is structured though. Let's just hope that they can break with the past and build in a more coherent way. Somehow I feel 9.5 has a feeling of this. I'm not completely convinced though.
Make some music!

mpr47563634
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by mpr47563634 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:15 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
mpr47563634 wrote:my only real problem with Ableton Live is that I'd like a proper mixing desk like Reason, with everything you need like master compressor, filters, gates etc.
Yeah, that's impossible to overcome by adding devices to the tracks too. What was Ableton thinking?
It's not as simple as adding devices to the tracks. Plus proper mixing desk means less clutter.

pinkpaint
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by pinkpaint » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:29 pm

Angstrom wrote:
#4: the rack overview. Hover over the bottom right of the rack, that little window there with the tiny picture of your rack devices, right click and you'll see a tree view of your complex rack with all the device names nested. Click on a device and you will go to it. I suspect this was nearly a more developed feature - but never completed.
[/b]
never mind i found it... he's not talking about to the bottom right of the rack. he's talking about to the bottom right of the device overview the picture in the very bottom right of ableton of your devices.
Last edited by pinkpaint on Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:31 pm

mpr47563634 wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
mpr47563634 wrote:my only real problem with Ableton Live is that I'd like a proper mixing desk like Reason, with everything you need like master compressor, filters, gates etc.
Yeah, that's impossible to overcome by adding devices to the tracks too. What was Ableton thinking?
It's not as simple as adding devices to the tracks. Plus proper mixing desk means less clutter.
Well, I disagree with you on this. Someone suggested convincingly that Cubase has great mixing functions, but you're quite unclear on what you mean here. Devices seem like a non issue to me. People mix in Live all the time too, even if some choose other DAWs for this.

If you add Mackie hardware control to Live, you can do a lot of things with Live. I can understand and agree there are mixer functions in other DAWs that would perhaps be useful to have also in Live, but I wouldn't label them "proper mixing desk".

If you'd care to elaborate I'm sure you have some interesting ideas on what could be implemented?
Make some music!

mpr47563634
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by mpr47563634 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:57 pm

It's really that simple: I'm lazy. If each channel of my mixing desk has all the tools I need to mix, I'm happy because I don't have to individually check each track's devices. Mixing becomes more natural.
To illustrate my comment, here's a little video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iewqz0kEcJg

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:07 pm

mpr47563634 wrote:It's really that simple: I'm lazy. If each channel of my mixing desk has all the tools I need to mix, I'm happy because I don't have to individually check each track's devices.
You're too lazy to make your own Live template with the specific tools you like to use? No-one is that lazy. I'll check the video later.
Make some music!

mpr47563634
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by mpr47563634 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:16 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
mpr47563634 wrote:It's really that simple: I'm lazy. If each channel of my mixing desk has all the tools I need to mix, I'm happy because I don't have to individually check each track's devices.
You're too lazy to make your own Live template with the specific tools you like to use? No-one is that lazy. I'll check the video later.
Oh, I have my own template, for sure with compressors etc. The problem is you can't mix from the mixing desk, you need to change parameters going in each channel separately.

I just don't see why Ableton shouldn't have a proper mixing desk like Reason or Protools. That's all.

mholloway
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by mholloway » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:11 pm

mpr47563634 wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
mpr47563634 wrote:my only real problem with Ableton Live is that I'd like a proper mixing desk like Reason, with everything you need like master compressor, filters, gates etc.
Yeah, that's impossible to overcome by adding devices to the tracks too. What was Ableton thinking?
It's not as simple as adding devices to the tracks. Plus proper mixing desk means less clutter.
Actually, it IS as simple as adding devices to the tracks. And IMO the Reason Mixer (which is what you gave as an example) is the most cluttered, hard to focus on thing I've ever seen in the DAW world. I'll take Ableton's always-visible left to right chain of native devices over that mess any day.

And I agree with Stormkraft... all those devices are already there, and they're good. But apparently if they don't show up in an old-fashioned, "replicate the out-dated studio mixer" format, some people just can't handle it and go OH NO WHERE AM I ??!!! :P

i know, i know - to each their own. But just pointing all this out because the LAST thing I want ableton to do is join the swamp of "make it look more like an old studio" DAWs. Live's UI is forward-thinking, not backward. Lets keep it that way.

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:29 pm

mholloway wrote: Live's UI is forward-thinking, not backward. Lets keep it that way.
Yes, please.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: the ultimate "I love Ableton BUT..." thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:36 pm

mpr47563634 wrote:The problem is you can't mix from the mixing desk, you need to change parameters going in each channel separately.

I just don't see why Ableton shouldn't have a proper mixing desk like Reason or Protools. That's all.
??? I can't understand you on this. I don't see any upside in Protools or Reason and as I recall you still need to add your tools in both apps.

I would understand you if you focused on the mixers themselves. I can see that you can prefer one specific over another. Personally, I think Logic's mixer is pretty good if a bit cluttered. It's not straightforward as I actually think the Live mixer is. I'm doing more advanced stuff in the Live mixer than what I did in Logic. Once you get your head around it, there are few things you can't do in Live. Those things can of course still be decisive points, depending on your work flow preferences.

Possibly I'd agree with you if you focused on specific features and work flows. I can see some good ideas for improving the Live mixer could come up in such a discussion. Perhaps in a new thread?
Make some music!

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