Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

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Tenacity
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:36 pm

Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Tenacity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:21 pm

I consider myself an advanced user and this one has me really stumped.

I've created a single file with 3 playbacks of a basic 4/4 kick.
Listen to this file below is an explanation
http://ambientsessions.com/files/Kicks-Ableton.mp3

1. Direct Playback from VLC - These kicks are the raw unedited sample. They are exactly how it should sound with no extra frequencies when played in any audio player.
2. Direct Ableton Playback - This is a direct recording of what I hear in ableton while working inside the DAW. Notice that the kick has developed some kind of resonance in the high end. (A ringing type sound)
3. Playback from Ableton Export - This is the exported kicks that had the high resonance sound in ableton but once you export the resonance disappears and the sample sounds as its intended.

This is driving me nuts. Has anyone else noticed that ableton is adding weird resonance to their samples in playback but in the final product the resonance is not there?
All my samples are being played back in highQ. My sample rate 44100, my buffer size is 4096, default pitch conversion is high quality.

Here are my stats
Win 7 64bit
Ableton 9.5
Quad 3.2
16GB ram
I have the Traktor Audio 10 Card but I've tested this with over 6 different sound cards in MME and in ASIO on different machines all with the same result.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated cause i simply can't mix under these conditions nor can live play occur.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:33 pm

Tenacity wrote: 2. Direct Ableton Playback - This is a direct recording of what I hear in ableton while working inside the DAW. Notice that the kick has developed some kind of resonance in the high end. (A ringing type sound)
How are the samples played back? This sounds like lack of interpolation to me, i e quantization noise.
So if it's a clip, what warp type do you use and why? If it's in Simpler or Sampler, is interpolation on or off? How far off are you from the original root note?
Make some music!

yur2die4
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:42 pm

Turn off hi Q.

Tenacity
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:36 pm

Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Tenacity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:55 pm

Hi there,
Thanks for getting back to me.
1. Turning off HighQ doesn't fix the issue.

In terms of playback I have 0 quantize on, There is no warp and the sample is just being triggered in a regular audio track. It might also be important to note that the resonance or interpolation is also heard when previewing the sound in the browser. Meaning I'm sure that it isn't a result of anything occurring in terms of routing or effects within the session. All tests I conducted were done on completely new sessions with 0 effects, warping or any other modifications.

Also I'm not adding it to any simpler or other device it is simply a drag and drop into audio track without warp or anything added to it. (As far as I can tell)
Its so weird. Thanks for trying to help with this.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:17 pm

Tenacity wrote: 1. Turning off HighQ doesn't fix the issue.

In terms of playback I have 0 quantize on, There is no warp and the sample is just being triggered in a regular audio track. It might also be important to note that the resonance or interpolation is also heard when previewing the sound in the browser. Meaning I'm sure that it isn't a result of anything occurring in terms of routing or effects within the session. All tests I conducted were done on completely new sessions with 0 effects, warping or any other modifications.

Also I'm not adding it to any simpler or other device it is simply a drag and drop into audio track without warp or anything added to it. (As far as I can tell)
Its so weird. Thanks for trying to help with this.

So this is an audio loop with a fixed tempo and the project is set to reflect this tempo? What's the quality of the recording in sample rate and bit depth? What are these settings in your project? Is this kick your own recording or from a library?
Do you have fades on by default? Is there any processing going on at all anywhere in the signal chain to the master? Turn it all off for now.

It's bound to be a mismatch of something.
Make some music!

Tenacity
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Tenacity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:33 pm

Hi,
Here is a link to the original sample. Its a totally clean unwarped kick
http://ambientsessions.com/files/Kick_02.wav

It is not a loop. To get the kick to hit on the 4/4 i did the following
Image

Sample Rate 44.1 24bit
Below are the project settings
Image
Image

As for the project its just a brand new project with nothing added to it. Also remember that this interpolation or resonance in the high end is also observed when previewing it in the browser window.
Let me know if you need any more info.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this.

yur2die4
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:02 pm

My next guess would be the audio output. I'm not sure how or why, but given that the export is fine, and that VLC plays it fine, there must be some kind of layer interrupting Live's audio out through the channels. You use 1/2 for both the music, and previewing.

I know you've said you have used different audio interfaces. Which makes it even more confusing.

Can you try something? Right click your speaker icon in Windows, and look at Output Devices. Go into the ones in there and look at their properties. Then check if Audio Enhancements is turned on? They should all be completely off.

Tenacity
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Tenacity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:34 pm

Hi yur2die4,
Thanks for the help.
These are the settings i've implemented based on your suggestion. I noticed that the speakers were set to 5.1 surround so i've changed that to 2.1 plus turned off audio enhancements. It didn't seem to do much except for accept the problematic sound. (Most likely cause setting it to 2.1 has brought the sound more upfront in the headphones.

Take a look at these settings
The problem still persists regardless. I guess I'm not the only one who is stumped by this. Annoying as hell. Starting to think about going back to logic. My other daws don't suffer from this issue.

Image Image

yur2die4
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Yeah. I'm stumped. My suggestions are basically kind of weak attempts, but you never know. It sounds like something you might need to talk to support about.

Two last things I guess.

1. Try setting the samples to Ram. Maybe the samples are getting mangled by hard drive streaming noise.
2. Check levels on all gear and your level of Windows to ensure no clipping. I'm assuming there is no clipping, but I'm picking at straws here

Edit: also, this probably doesn't mean anything, since you're recording from the output, but in the middle version (Ableton set), I can hear fan noise etc. did you record it off of speakers, or off of your headphone 1/8" out?

Tenacity
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Tenacity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:57 pm

Hey man,
It's all good thanks for trying.
The recording had a bit of fan noise cause i ripped it into audacity quickly for export so a bit of the fan got recorded but the problematic sound exists regardless of that particular recording.

I;ll contact ableton and see if they can help but in the meantime if anyone else has any suggestions it would really help as ableton support is... well less than helpful haha,

You guys are awesome thanks again for giving it a go.

ObtuseMoose
Posts: 143
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by ObtuseMoose » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:46 am

Tenacity wrote:in the meantime if anyone else has any suggestions it would really help
OK, I'll take my turn in this game of "stump the chumps." :)

To my ear, that sounds like a bad sample rate conversion. I tried playing with your original sample (the .wav file) in Live 9.5 on my Mac. I couldn't reproduce your problem exactly, but adding the Redux effect and setting Downsample to 8 (Hard) is sort of similar. Check what sample rate that VIA Vinyl HD Audio device is running at. I don't know where that setting would be in Windows, but my guess is on the Advanced tab of the Speakers Properties dialog. If it's not at 44.1 kHz, try setting it to that and see if that makes any difference.

Alternately, go into Live's preferences, the Audio tab, and set "Default SR & Pitch Conversion" to "High Quality". If that makes no difference, try setting the "In/Out Sample Rate" to different values.

Finally, if none if those work, one last guess is to go to Live's preferences, the Record/Warp/Launch tab, and set "Loop/Warp Short Samples" to "Unwarped One-shot", create a new Live Set, add the clip, and see if that makes any difference. (I doubt it will, but this is Live on Windows we're talking about... :wink: )

--
Moose
"all the musical ability of a blocked nostril"

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:34 am

Tenacity wrote: Starting to think about going back to logic. My other daws don't suffer from this issue.
Actually, if you want solve this problem you need to acknowledge the fact that if any of us can drop this sample into a new project without this issue, then this must be all your own doing. These things happen to everyone, but don't blame the tool. That'll just get in the way of finding a solution.

Some things stand out as odd in your settings. Why do you use "Complex" for a kick sample? I see Complex is your default too and it shouldn't be unless you realize this is not neutral. However, if the sample isn't warped this is hardly involved in your playback issue. When I turned on warp for 4 copies of this sample none of the warp modes had any noticeable artefacts.

Also, why exactly is your driver compensation and latency negative? That would seem to be something to exclude.

The fact that this error would seem to not be able to get reproduced in any other copy of Live suggests your problem stems from outside of Live or from your specific settings in relation to potentially contributing external factors. Please share your project so we can exclude Live completely and maybe find clues on what it must be. Can you try this project on another machine yourself?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:41 am, edited 5 times in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:40 am

Tenacity wrote:Hey man,
It's all good thanks for trying.
The recording had a bit of fan noise cause i ripped it into audacity quickly for export so a bit of the fan got recorded but the problematic sound exists regardless of that particular recording.
But this also tarnishes the sample you shared, making it less useful, and potentially your listening environment as well. Why is the mike even on? Turn it off when you're not using it.

Or, you had to use the mike to make the recording? There's no audio bus in Windows you can record from? OK, my apologies if that is why. You should have mentioned the fan noise though. I was too tired last night to notice it.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Tenacity
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:36 pm

Re: Live 9.5 is adding high feqs to all samples

Post by Tenacity » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:07 am

Hey Man,
You're right i should have mentioned it. I didn't have a decent buss to record the live event. But i figured the fan noise was so minute compared to the issue which is so much in the front i didn't really think that it would be considered as part of the issue.

Sorry for the confusion.

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