Use one hardware synth to control another in Ableton?

[djdizzy216]

I have a Virus TI that I was hoping to use its knobs to control the parameters of my Waldorf Pulse 2. The Pulse 2 is laid out like a matrix, I'd love to be able to have a MIDI controller that gives me the ability knob-per-function.

I put the Virus into "Remote" mode and turned on "Tracking" in Ableton's MIDI/Sync tab then I tweaked a couple knobs, I noticed that the Virus' amp Sustain controller the volume and its envelope Decay controlled OSC1 shape.

But is there any way I can map the MIDI CC's so it matches? IE: the Virus' ADSR knobs control the Pulse 2's ADSR, the Virus' OSC1 shape knob controls the Pulse 2's OSC1 shape, etc?

It seems like Ableton has predefined MIDI controllers from the droplist where it's plug-and-play but I don't have any of those MIDI controllers, I only have hardware synths. So how can I map this stuff manually? I have the full MIDI CC parameter list for the Virus TI and the Pulse 2 but don't know what to do in Ableton.

[djdizzy216]

bump, i know somebody's used one hardware synth to control another in Ableton...

[Tarekith]

I think it would be something that you would have to be able to do on the synths, either the option to change the CC's the Virus is sending, or the ones the Pulse 2 responds to. I don't think either synth allows that though.

There's probably a way to remap CCs on the fly using M4L, but I'm guessing it's not that easy to code yourself if you're not good at Max.

[doublestop]

Yeah, Boy! I'm kind of surprised Ableton hasn't added the ability to save Midi Controller Profiles. They have some built in, but not all. I have a Steinberg CC121 - It works in Live (sort of) using the Mackie generic Controller input... but it's ugly - a bit like using a flat head screwdriver for a phillips head! I have a Push 2 on order.. so, I suppose it won't matter.. but still, It's a nice controller (especially the jog wheel) - It would come in handy!!!

My point is, Even for one synth to control another in Ableton, I would imagine there has to be some kind of Mapping reference that it would have to record and save with the project. Would Ableton be able to save that Midi mapping? And if this is a realtime use case, does the communication have to go through Ableton? what about a direct connection (MIDI thru) from one device to another?

[AliMc]

Hi Djdizzy216,
I think you can set this up from the Virus Control plugin.
It's been a few years since I sold my TI but I'm pretty sure I had it set up to control various synths using the remote templates.
If I remember correctly, it's quite fiddly to set up but you will only need to do it once for your Waldorf Pulse and you're good to go.

Try selecting the Remote page on the VC plugin and select a blank template. You can then click on each knob on the GUI and assign a CC and midi channel.
This is the fiddly bit as it you have to use some strange jargon to assign your CC and channel. (Access might have made it easier by now??)
You will need to read the manual for this bit. I think it's explained fairly well though.

You should be able to find a list of the CC parameters for the Waldorf on their website or in the manual.

Once you have a template set up in the plugin, you should be able to save it to the Virus and use it in standalone mode - Virus MIDI-OUT to Pulse MIDI-IN (or through the plugin and Ableton if you prefer).

Hope this helps - good luck...

[djdizzy216]

Hi Djdizzy216,
I think you can set this up from the Virus Control plugin.
It's been a few years since I sold my TI but I'm pretty sure I had it set up to control various synths using the remote templates.
If I remember correctly, it's quite fiddly to set up but you will only need to do it once for your Waldorf Pulse and you're good to go.

Try selecting the Remote page on the VC plugin and select a blank template. You can then click on each knob on the GUI and assign a CC and midi channel.
This is the fiddly bit as it you have to use some strange jargon to assign your CC and channel. (Access might have made it easier by now??)
You will need to read the manual for this bit. I think it's explained fairly well though.

You should be able to find a list of the CC parameters for the Waldorf on their website or in the manual.

Once you have a template set up in the plugin, you should be able to save it to the Virus and use it in standalone mode - Virus MIDI-OUT to Pulse MIDI-IN (or through the plugin and Ableton if you prefer).

Hope this helps - good luck...

Thanks! You're absolutely right, after reading your message I saw that the VC plugin has a "Remote" section in the "Patch Utility" tab. Then you have to enter a MIDI string and name the knob if you want. I assigned all the MIDI CC values to the knobs so they match the desired function for the Pulse 2 and saved that "remote template" and put the Virus in "Remote Mode". I enabled Track/Sync/Remote for the Virus for good measure but haven't had any luck getting it to work yet.

If I play keys or use the pitchbend or mod wheel on the Virus, I see the Pulse 2's MIDI LED light up. But when I turn any of the Virus' knobs that I mapped, the Pulse 2's MIDI LED doesn't light up at all. I think at this point I'll try to contact Waldorf, it must be an incorrect setting with the Pulse 2.

Thanks for the help!


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For anyone else that comes across this post and wants to know how to use a Virus in Remote Mode and remap its knobs' MIDI CC values like AliMC mentioned. It can be used to control other synths or VST's, here's the info:

How to write a MIDI string
Firstly, you will need to consult the user manual of the synthesizer or 3rd party plug-in you wish to control remotely, in order to find the controller numbers for each parameter.

Let’s say that you want to assign the Cutoff knob of the TI to control Cutoff in the plug-in, which according to it’s user manual, has MIDI number 70 assigned to it. In this case, type the following into the MIDI STRING field in the REMOTE page: "B0 %70 * (with spaces)"

Basically, ‘B0’ makes it a MIDI CC command, where 0 = MIDI channel 1 (the 16 channels are numbered 0-15). ‘%70’ makes it controller number 70, and ‘*’ tells it to use the value of the assigned knob. Don’t worry if you don’t understand the alien language – it works, and once you’ve done it, it’s easy! Press Enter on the computer keyboard to confirm the text. When you press Enter to confirm the MIDI String, the text will be altered to a hexadecimal number – please don’t worry about this either! The exact description of the current knob behavior can be seen below the MIDI string text field.

You'll want to be sure the Virus is in Remote Mode by pressing Shift+Config, it'll say "Remote" on the LCD screen now. I saved my remote template in the first template slot and named it "Waldorf Pulse 2" so now anytime I put the Virus into remote mode, it automatically goes to that template and displays that remote template name on the LCD also.

[djdizzy216]

It's working now, not only that but it's working with a 3rd party Pulse 2 VST editor too
I had the syntax wrong, I missed that you're supposed to put a " *" at the end of the Virus' MIDI string. So for example if you want to map a knob to MIDI CC 35, the syntax needs to be "B0 %35 * "
Thanks again AliMc

[AliMc]

Cool. Glad you got it working.