Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

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chris vine
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by chris vine » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:47 am

H20nly wrote:Just chiming in to say I have used a FireWire to Thunderbolt cable successfully. It worked like a charm. I used FireWire with XP and Windows 7 in PC land on a TC Electronic interface that also worked on my Mac with the adapter cable. Windows 7 was a laptop and I used an express card with the T.I. chipset on that rig. I love FireWire and hate to see it go away... but it is...

Good to hear, thanks

fishmonkey
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:19 pm

Thunderbolt->Firewire on Macs is totally solid (unless your interface is completely crap, like an M-Audio for example).

the main caveat is that the Thunderbolt->Firewire adaptor can only supply about 7 watts of power, which is far below the Firewire spec of 45 watts. so bus-powered Firewire devices that need more power than that will need external power. personally i've found that bus-powering is more likely to cause grounding issues, so i prefer to use external power anyway...
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Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:36 pm

If you are going to buy a new Audio Interface today, why would invest in old obsolete Technology. I am sorry, but that's what Firewire is today. It has been replaced by thunderbolt / displayport years ago and now USB-C is about to replace Thunderbolt.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. But to each their own I guess.

It's much safer to buy a USB2 device due to guaranteed backwards compatibility with USB3 and USB3.1(USB-C).

Emanresu0891
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by Emanresu0891 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:11 pm

When did thunderbolt come out 4 or 5 years ago? These cable wars are really getting ridiculous.

Trs, XLR and midi have been around for decades! I could understand all the switching of cables if there were some improvements in the audio world, but there are really none to be had. We are there.

I dont see audio technology improving anytime soon. The only thing that changes is the way our interfaces connect to the computer and they only become obsolete because of the computer industry NOT the audio industry.

A firewire or usb interface from 10 years ago is still useable just like a mixer from 40 years ago is still useable... THIS IS AUDIO! WE HAVE REACHED MAX FIDELITY! The only thing that could change would be speaker design but there is not much to improve on when it comes to the audio interface or the way sound is recorded. The computer industry is constantly fucking us over. Its just a waste of gear and the Earth's resources.


This reminds me of the flat head screw vs philips and the star screw.

The flat head was obviously shit and replaced by the philips. Then along comes some one trying to make a buck with the stupid star screw. We don't need that shit! The philips is good enough!

Emanresu0891
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by Emanresu0891 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:26 pm

Image


Image

This should still be in use today.

H20nly
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:16 pm

Emanresu0891 wrote:The only thing that changes is the way our interfaces connect to the computer and they only become obsolete because of the computer industry NOT the audio industry.

A firewire or usb interface from 10 years ago is still useable just like a mixer from 40 years ago is still useable... THIS IS AUDIO! WE HAVE REACHED MAX FIDELITY!
this, pretty much...

we do get gaffled by the manufacturers... and not to get all Mac vs. PC about it, but Apple seems to always be at the forefront of change in this regard. "this is faster and better! now go out and replace all your perfectly good shit with new shit! because we no longer support that shit"

Emanresu0891
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by Emanresu0891 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:42 pm

Yeah Apple is definitely the biggest reason for the unnecessary abandonment. In the audio world things dont change that much.
I would be ok with the change if there was a real advancement like no more cables for anything, but its never a big change its just "switch out this unit for that unit because we say so.

It would be nice if manufacturers of audio interfaces would release something you could buy to make your older unit compatible. Its really getting to the point where people are buying the same interface with just an updated way to connect to the computer.
Its completely wasteful and should be looked down upon in an era where people are more aware of what hoarding does to the planet.

I guess the only way to fight it is not to buy the new thing when its exactly the same as the old thing and stop buying from companies that promote waste rather than longevity.

beatz01
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by beatz01 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:30 pm

Well to be fair Thunderbolt does have the advantage of ultra low latency with audio interfaces which both USB and Firewire can't compare to.

kitekrazy
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by kitekrazy » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:37 pm

H20nly wrote:
Emanresu0891 wrote:The only thing that changes is the way our interfaces connect to the computer and they only become obsolete because of the computer industry NOT the audio industry.

A firewire or usb interface from 10 years ago is still useable just like a mixer from 40 years ago is still useable... THIS IS AUDIO! WE HAVE REACHED MAX FIDELITY!
this, pretty much...

we do get gaffled by the manufacturers... and not to get all Mac vs. PC about it, but Apple seems to always be at the forefront of change in this regard. "this is faster and better! now go out and replace all your perfectly good shit with new shit! because we no longer support that shit"
Too bad the audio industry is often behind new buses. You can still get a PCI card by RME. Lynx, and I guess some of the higher end Mac hardware is still PCI. So little was done with PCIe. I guess most pushed out USB2 is because you don't have to open the system to install it.

fishmonkey
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:24 pm

kitekrazy wrote:So little was done with PCIe.
Thunderbolt is PCIe + DisplayPort + power...
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jlgrimes
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by jlgrimes » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:40 pm

I would lean more to USB for non obsolescence. Thunderbolt for ultimate performance.

Nothing necessarily wrong with FireWire but if you plan on going on PC, there can be compatibility issues.

In the future this could mean problems but that said the same could be true for USB at some point.

Any interface you buy can pose some issues.

USB reliability can vary greatly upon manufacturer. USB 1.1 could have bandwidth issues. USB can also have chipset issues as well (and issues depending on what type of USB port you plug into). But I would think in most cases USB issues could have the highest chances of being resolved by driver updates, computer firmware updates etc. That said a lot of this depends on how reliable the manufacturer is.

I don't believe Thunderbolt is fully supported on Windows.

And FireWire ports rarely come on new PCs or Macs.

FireWire actually have clear advantages over USB but the same is true of PCI which is basically obsolete now.

kitekrazy
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by kitekrazy » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:09 pm

fishmonkey wrote:
kitekrazy wrote:So little was done with PCIe.
Thunderbolt is PCIe + DisplayPort + power...
In a Windows system Tbolt as of now is no faster than 1394.

kitekrazy
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by kitekrazy » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:11 pm

beatz01 wrote:Well to be fair Thunderbolt does have the advantage of ultra low latency with audio interfaces which both USB and Firewire can't compare to.
USB 3.1 would be comparable to Tbolt 2. I would imagine with manufacturing costs 3.1 will be popular than Tbolt on the Windows side.

H20nly
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by H20nly » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:45 am

kitekrazy wrote:
beatz01 wrote:Well to be fair Thunderbolt does have the advantage of ultra low latency with audio interfaces which both USB and Firewire can't compare to.
USB 3.1 would be comparable to Tbolt 2. I would imagine with manufacturing costs 3.1 will be popular than Tbolt on the Windows side.
agreed. Tbolt is basically a niche market at this point. USB x.x (revision doesn't matter) has the luxury of having literally 10s of thousands of devices that already use it and came with a cable for no additional cost.

Danny_DJ
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Re: Too risky to buy a firewire interface these days?

Post by Danny_DJ » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:42 pm

in general, luckily, nowadays even USB 2 devices can be as fast and reliable as FW devices. given that a company writes good drivers.
USB 2 still sucks in terms of power supply and different connectors. A MOTU Ultralite hybrid can be FW bus powered, but not via USB.

I am on a 828 mk3 and want to size down to a RME babyface pro. 10 years ago, I was on the pro-FW-party, since the old truths were intact. but the performance-reviews and the better compatiblity of the connectors give me the confidence to switch.

Even on USB 2, you can transfer ridiculous amounts of channels. RME decided not to go onto 3, since this would add no technical advantages but costs. Official quote:
USB 3 does NOT reduce latency at all. It just delivers more bandwidth to transfer more channels. RME can easily transfer up to 70 channels I/O over USB 2 (MADIface XT, MADIface USB). The Babyface has just 12 channels I/O. USB would have made it significantly more expensive due to a bigger FPGA and a special USB 3 phy required – for nothing.
kitekrazy wrote: USB 3.1 is suppose to be as good as TBolt2.
not in terms of speed. TB2 can combine the two 10 gbit/s lanes that were split on TB1, resulting in 20.
USB 3.1 is just 10.

TB 3 will be via USB-C cables and 40. but I bet that not every 3.1 connector and chipset will support TB, since this usually drives technical effort and cost up.

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