Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:13 pm

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:my entire Ableton installation, plugins, Library, etc are on a seperate dedicated disk.

In Windows Explorer the short cuts and folder info to my Music Productions sub-folder still exist, so Windows OS still thinks the folder exist, but it doesn't. It's gone.
Could you elaborate a little more on your paths, including shortcuts and the path settings in Live? How long are your paths?

Why do you have shortcuts if Live can just be pointed to the external disk?

If you could find a log of what was done that would be very helpful too.
Make some music!

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
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Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:05 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote:my entire Ableton installation, plugins, Library, etc are on a seperate dedicated disk.

In Windows Explorer the short cuts and folder info to my Music Productions sub-folder still exist, so Windows OS still thinks the folder exist, but it doesn't. It's gone.
Could you elaborate a little more on your paths, including shortcuts and the path settings in Live? How long are your paths?

Why do you have shortcuts if Live can just be pointed to the external disk?

If you could find a log of what was done that would be very helpful too.
It's not really short cuts, it's the Quick Access in Windows Explorer that automatically creates these for most used file locations.

H20nly
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Location: The Wild West

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by H20nly » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:07 pm

Stromkraft wrote:Could you elaborate a little more on your paths, including shortcuts and the path settings in Live? How long are your paths?
that's a great question.

If your paths are too long and got truncated you could stand to lose whatever was at the end of them.

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:05 pm

Coupe70 wrote:If the files were really deleted you should stop working on that
HD and try a recovery tool like Recuva to get the deleted files
back that should still be there if you didn't write (much)
on the affected HD...
Doesn't find the cause for what you describe, doesn't cure the
bug if there is one, but it might bring back your files.
And you can get prove that something really deleted the files
and they didn't disappear for some other strange reason - can't
remember if Recuva maybe can provide a "time of deletion" for
the files it finds so you can link it to the time of the Live update.
Thanks for the tip. Running it now.

EDIT: No Luck, Figures. :(

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:15 pm

H20nly wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:Could you elaborate a little more on your paths, including shortcuts and the path settings in Live? How long are your paths?
that's a great question.

If your paths are too long and got truncated you could stand to lose whatever was at the end of them.
How long is too long? It would seem there's a Windows API for longer file paths than 255. The question is what Live or the update installer uses in this case.

What contradicts file paths being the issue in Guillermo's case, is the fact that these did work up until the update. I suppose it's possible that the updater used a longer path at some point of the installation though. I have too little experience with file path issues to suggest anything here.

Doesn't anyone know whether the update process makes a log somewhere? Surely Windows 10 has some kind of centralized log system, right? An error should be logged, that's just natural M.O. for an installer.
Make some music!

stringtapper
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Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by stringtapper » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:39 pm

Stromkraft wrote:the adverb form of conspiration
Which itself is an archaic and unnecessary French cognate that is effectively synonymous with the word "conspiracy" (hence the "unnecessary" part). H2Only is American and it's not a common word in American English, highlighted by the fact that Oxford doesn't recognize it as legit English and neither does my browser or Microsoft Word.

Anyway, MISSING LIBRARIES!!!
Unsound Designer

Coupe70
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Contact:

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Coupe70 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:38 pm


Thanks for the tip. Running it now.

EDIT: No Luck, Figures. :(
You mean it didn't find ANYTHING ?
Not even single files it could not recover ?
Is your HD nearly full and/or did you write a lot
of data on it since updating ?
Usually it should at least find fragmented parts
of deleted files, because a simple delete only deletes
the file reference in the HD "directory", but not the
data itself. They stay on the HD until they are overwritten
with new data...
Phongemeinschaft (Live-ElectroJazz / NuJazz)
Homepage - youtube - Like! :-)
Live 9 (32Bit), HP DV7, i5 2,53GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win7 (64Bit)

H20nly
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Location: The Wild West

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by H20nly » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:14 am

Stromkraft wrote:
H20nly wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:Could you elaborate a little more on your paths, including shortcuts and the path settings in Live? How long are your paths?
that's a great question.

If your paths are too long and got truncated you could stand to lose whatever was at the end of them.
How long is too long? It would seem there's a Windows API for longer file paths than 255. The question is what Live or the update installer uses in this case.

What contradicts file paths being the issue in Guillermo's case, is the fact that these did work up until the update. I suppose it's possible that the updater used a longer path at some point of the installation though. I have too little experience with file path issues to suggest anything here.

Doesn't anyone know whether the update process makes a log somewhere? Surely Windows 10 has some kind of centralized log system, right? An error should be logged, that's just natural M.O. for an installer.
260

if the location was created after a previous install it could be recognized as it was likely browsed to. If the application, once updated, had to reference again... maybe that's where it was truncated.

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:12 am

H20nly wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: How long is too long? It would seem there's a Windows API for longer file paths than 255. The question is what Live or the update installer uses in this case.……
Doesn't anyone know whether the update process makes a log somewhere? Surely Windows 10 has some kind of centralized log system, right? An error should be logged, that's just natural M.O. for an installer.
260

if the location was created after a previous install it could be recognized as it was likely browsed to. If the application, once updated, had to reference again... maybe that's where it was truncated.
OK, I'm not familiar with Win 10 yet, but according to this article "Enabling Windows Installer Logging for Windows 10 it would seem it's not on by default.

Anyone willing to turn logging on and performing the update? Like for instance if you had planned to do the update anyway. While we might not see the particular problem of Guillermo's I'd assume we can see what it's doing at least. Of course I don't know if the Live updater uses this mechanism or if it's another purpose built tool that Ableton uses. If it is Ableton certainly could have built in path length evaluation and other checks. That path is a factor is still just one idea.

You'll also find this suggestion in the article
"Windows 10 invites new potential for installation screw-ups for legacy applications"
Make some music!

ObtuseMoose
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Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by ObtuseMoose » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:09 pm

Stromkraft wrote:What contradicts file paths being the issue in Guillermo's case, is the fact that these did work up until the update.
Indeed. In fact, according to his statements, they continued to work even after the update. It was only later after having some problems with Push2 that he noticed they were missing. At least that's how I interpret his statements.
Guillermo Barrancos wrote: I used Live 9.6 afterwards and worked with my Project files and they were all there.

The only thing I did, is that on the last day I used Live 9.6 last week, I had some hangups with Live due to Push 2, so had to restart several times before it worked.
That suggests to me that the update went OK and something else happened later. It's not clear how many times he used Live after updating to 9.6 before he noticed the missing files.

--
Moose
"all the musical ability of a blocked nostril"

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:08 am

ObtuseMoose wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:What contradicts file paths being the issue in Guillermo's case, is the fact that these did work up until the update.
Indeed. In fact, according to his statements, they continued to work even after the update. It was only later after having some problems with Push2 that he noticed they were missing. At least that's how I interpret his statements.
Guillermo Barrancos wrote: I used Live 9.6 afterwards and worked with my Project files and they were all there.

The only thing I did, is that on the last day I used Live 9.6 last week, I had some hangups with Live due to Push 2, so had to restart several times before it worked.
That suggests to me that the update went OK and something else happened later. It's not clear how many times he used Live after updating to 9.6 before he noticed the missing files.

--
Moose
Good point, Moose. I missed that quite vital detail. Thanks.
Make some music!

Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:44 am

ObtuseMoose wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:What contradicts file paths being the issue in Guillermo's case, is the fact that these did work up until the update.
Indeed. In fact, according to his statements, they continued to work even after the update. It was only later after having some problems with Push2 that he noticed they were missing. At least that's how I interpret his statements.
Guillermo Barrancos wrote: I used Live 9.6 afterwards and worked with my Project files and they were all there.

The only thing I did, is that on the last day I used Live 9.6 last week, I had some hangups with Live due to Push 2, so had to restart several times before it worked.
That suggests to me that the update went OK and something else happened later. It's not clear how many times he used Live after updating to 9.6 before he noticed the missing files.

--
Moose
That was indeed the case.

Though, the update didn't go super smooth, as during the update it deleted all my Packs in the Packs folders! Only about a Third of packs were moved to the _Updated folder!
So I basically had to completely re-install all my packs again, as I did not trust what was left of my packs in the _Updated folder!
But my entire User Library was copied there, which I copied back to the regular User Library.
Why in earth Ableton does this with their updater! That's another questionable procedure!

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