Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Angstrom
Posts: 14745
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Angstrom » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:48 am

I dont know about that. It IS possible there's a bug which may delete the user lib in a small set of cases. Because YOU havent experienced it doesnt make it impossible.
The User Library folder is usually not affected by an update and I'd expect that folder to be left alone in all cases. To throw the blame on the user based on your hunch "it must be your fault". Nah.

Has Live really overwritten the folder in this case?
It seems unlikely but it is possible. In the beta I experienced at least two odd occurances I've never seen before, with libraries acting strangely, databases emptying, etc. In one case the auto-updater didnt kill the active live process as the app closed, so the DB was left open by the process, therefore the new install couldnt access it - and therefore it was corrupted for the new install. Empty library.

It's only a small misstep from there to "if (user_lib_location ===null) {make_new_defaultuser_lib() } " sort of doom. By that I mean : it thinks the user-lib hadnt been created, so it creates one with default content.

Improbable but mistakes can be made in complex software on a panoply of platforms. It happens. That's what a bug is.
Personally I have a backup of my user lib, but the most recent is probably 2 weeks old. For me that folder only contains rack presets. If 9.6 overwrote it I'd only lose the last 2 weeks of presets, as I said - my songs are elsewhere.

mekanism1200
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by mekanism1200 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:28 am

Try right clicking on Ableton and launch as Administrator. The permissions in Windows 10 are all messed up for me for some reason and I have to manually go in to settings and tell Windows that I have Admin rights. Although if the files are indeed missing I cant help you there. I have never had Ableton actually delete my files, and I have had many issues over the years with Ableton. Ironically Ableton 9.6 and Win10 has been the most stable for me, and I havent done a clean OS install since buying my computer 4 years ago.

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:47 am

jestermgee wrote:When you installed your new Live did you "Upgrade or replace" when asked?

You may find it simply did not carry over your library from the previous installed version.

Not sure on MAC but on Windows in \ProgramData\USER\AppData\Roaming\Ableton\[Ableton version]

You have a folder for each Live version with library files etc in there. You could just copy the files from the previous version to the new one?

I have to do this every time because I use a custom MIDI script for the Launchpad due to being colourblind and that never copies over when I install a new version of Live.
I have done the "replace" option during upgrade to Live 9.6. The User Library and some other stuff was then indeed moved to a so called _Updated folder. So I had to move it back, which I did.
That _Updated folder is now empty, so it hasn't move stuff back there and in preferences the User Library is still pointing to the same location as always, just that all content in it has now been erased! :evil:

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:00 pm

Angstrom wrote:I dont know about that. It IS possible there's a bug which may delete the user lib in a small set of cases. Because YOU havent experienced it doesnt make it impossible.
Stromkraft wrote: It could be a bug of course, but it doesn't seem to affect everyone. The question is why this happened.
You mean to say you don't keep a backup of one of the most important Ableton Live folders that contains your work product?
What kind of tired response is that? It could always be a bug. We both know that. This is also why I said that in the quote above.

I did a mistake assessing the platform tough as I missed this was about Windows. I've just updated multiple Macs without encountering this issue, which is why I think it's unlikely to be a rampant problem on OS X at least. I was paid to do that, so of course I did it the proper way with backups in place prior to starting any updates.

I maintain that's just how you should do all updates, because sooner or later there is a problem, a bug or you screw up and you will quite often not know which. If you get hit it doesn't matter whose fault is, or rather could be in theory. This applies on any platform.

Precautions are part of the reality of computing. The sooner you face this the better off you'll be in the long run. (the general you, i e all of us)
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:09 pm

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:
Completely speechless and frustrated right now. Can't believe such a bug made it into a live release.
My apologies, Guillermo. I seem to have missed that you're on Windows (10?). Anything is possible on that platform, if you ask me. Unfortunately there are signs Ableton have slacked a bit with the Windows version. I'm not sure why that is.

If this happened on a Mac though, I still think it's unlikely to be a common problem. Time will tell. One time, a long time ago, an Apple OS update erased some important system files so these things do happen. They're just rare.
Make some music!

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 2431
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by [jur] » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:29 pm

Guillermo, I've just seen on the web that the latest Adobe CC update had a bug which... deletes files on the system! Are you a CC subscriber by any "chance"?
BTW, I think you should get in touch with support@ableton.com now.
Ableton Forum Moderator

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:22 pm

[jur] wrote:Guillermo, I've just seen on the web that the latest Adobe CC update had a bug which... deletes files on the system! Are you a CC subscriber by any "chance"?
BTW, I think you should get in touch with support@ableton.com now.
That is also on Mac and on OSX main disk, first folder in alphabetical order.

I lost the library on Windows and it was burried deep under a seperate dedicated disk in folder Program Files, so not exactly the first folder in Alphabetical order if Adobe CC bug was on Windows too.

J0n35y
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by J0n35y » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:35 pm

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:
jestermgee wrote:When you installed your new Live did you "Upgrade or replace" when asked?

You may find it simply did not carry over your library from the previous installed version.

Not sure on MAC but on Windows in \ProgramData\USER\AppData\Roaming\Ableton\[Ableton version]

You have a folder for each Live version with library files etc in there. You could just copy the files from the previous version to the new one?

I have to do this every time because I use a custom MIDI script for the Launchpad due to being colourblind and that never copies over when I install a new version of Live.
I have done the "replace" option during upgrade to Live 9.6. The User Library and some other stuff was then indeed moved to a so called _Updated folder. So I had to move it back, which I did.
That _Updated folder is now empty, so it hasn't move stuff back there and in preferences the User Library is still pointing to the same location as always, just that all content in it has now been erased! :evil:
I had problems when I installed using the "replace" option. Basically it didn't quite replace cleanly (Im on Win 10) and I still had 2 versions of Live on my computer. I uninstalled both, reinstalled 9.6 and everything was back.

But, that was a core library issue rather than a user library issue but I wonder if something similar has happened for you and the user paths are caught in limbo as the registry hasn't been cleaned out correctly...

muthafunka
Posts: 2241
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:28 pm
Location: Tokyo

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by muthafunka » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:36 am

.

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:04 am

J0n35y wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote:
jestermgee wrote:When you installed your new Live did you "Upgrade or replace" when asked?

You may find it simply did not carry over your library from the previous installed version.

Not sure on MAC but on Windows in \ProgramData\USER\AppData\Roaming\Ableton\[Ableton version]

You have a folder for each Live version with library files etc in there. You could just copy the files from the previous version to the new one?

I have to do this every time because I use a custom MIDI script for the Launchpad due to being colourblind and that never copies over when I install a new version of Live.
I have done the "replace" option during upgrade to Live 9.6. The User Library and some other stuff was then indeed moved to a so called _Updated folder. So I had to move it back, which I did.
That _Updated folder is now empty, so it hasn't move stuff back there and in preferences the User Library is still pointing to the same location as always, just that all content in it has now been erased! :evil:
I had problems when I installed using the "replace" option. Basically it didn't quite replace cleanly (Im on Win 10) and I still had 2 versions of Live on my computer. I uninstalled both, reinstalled 9.6 and everything was back.

But, that was a core library issue rather than a user library issue but I wonder if something similar has happened for you and the user paths are caught in limbo as the registry hasn't been cleaned out correctly...
Exactly, I know all to well the issues with the Core Library, but the User Library has never ever been an issue as long as I have used Ableton.

But I Guess lesson learned. Especially after all the issues since live 9.5. That you simply cannot rely on Ableton anymore! So from now on, I will avoid the User Library like the plague too. /facepalm

Sometimes, especially what I have been going through the last two months with Live 9.5 (and Push 2), I really wish I would have sticked with Cubase and never sold my License years ago. /shrug

muthafunka
Posts: 2241
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:28 pm
Location: Tokyo

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by muthafunka » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:10 am

No backups/clones?

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:17 am

muthafunka wrote:No backups/clones?
The last two weeks no. I had been struggling so much with all the crashing and hanging issues with Ableton Live 9.5, Push 2 and the Focusrite, that I was happy when I actually got things running for a bit to actually do something. So I forgot. :(

When upgrading to Live 9.6 last week and having the Steinberg UR44, I was so happy everything was more or less stable again (except Push 2 causing some hang ups now and then), that I forgot to copy an updated User Library to my Mac last week. :(

You just don't expect Ableton to just suddenly erase everything in the User Library! /Facepalm

Tarekith
Posts: 17716
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Tarekith » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:41 am

Guillermo Barrancos wrote: I have done the "replace" option during upgrade to Live 9.6. The User Library and some other stuff was then indeed moved to a so called _Updated folder. So I had to move it back, which I did.
That _Updated folder is now empty, so it hasn't move stuff back there and in preferences the User Library is still pointing to the same location as always, just that all content in it has now been erased! :evil:
Is it possible that when you manually copied everything everything back it overwrote all your stuff? The updated folder is created so that Live doesn't overwrite anything you have installed in the main library I believe.
Tarekith
Ableton Forum Administrator
Inner Portal Studio - Professional Audio Mastering

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:02 am

Tarekith wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote: I have done the "replace" option during upgrade to Live 9.6. The User Library and some other stuff was then indeed moved to a so called _Updated folder. So I had to move it back, which I did.
That _Updated folder is now empty, so it hasn't move stuff back there and in preferences the User Library is still pointing to the same location as always, just that all content in it has now been erased! :evil:
Is it possible that when you manually copied everything everything back it overwrote all your stuff? The updated folder is created so that Live doesn't overwrite anything you have installed in the main library I believe.
Nope! I did not, as I used Live 9.6 afterwards and worked with my Project files and they were all there.

The only thing I did, is that on the last day I used Live 9.6 last week, I had some hangups with Live due to Push 2, so had to restart several times before it worked.

And according to someone, the Ableton Live process doesn't close when that happens and he had some weird stuff happening with his User Library.
So I have a feeling, that when I shut down my PC that night, the erase might have happened then. :(

Angstrom
Posts: 14745
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Ableton serously?! Library erased after launch of 9.6 !

Post by Angstrom » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:17 pm

That someone was probably me.

Its worth saying that in my case Ableton didn't actually delete anything.
What happened was - in the betas I have the auto-update activated (which triggers the overwriting of the program files when the current version is closed by the user), and while it overwrites files in the same program directory it will create a new preferences and database folder for each new beta. In a few cases the beta was no able to create a new database for the new install, so when Live restarted my library appeared empty.

However, there were several different issues all somewhat related whcih popped up. We tried to track them down but it was a bit of a one shot deal. So for a few betas (after they autoinstalled) I was left with a crippled app, and the only solution was a total uninstall of all betas and installing the current beta manually. Every time it happened.
It was a bit tiresome, but at no point did my own files get deleted. So it was simply a head-scratcher.
However, they are kept far far away from the initial user lib location as used by the OP. My files are not under the app directory, or the user directory.

Post Reply