Question for any music theory heads out there, song key?

[puzzlefactory]

I've written a little chord progression that i really like but can't figure out what key it is in. The tonic chord is C major but the rest of the progression is in C minor scale. So what key would this be? What scale is it following?

[Stromkraft]

I've written a little chord progression that i really like but can't figure out what key it is in. The tonic chord is C major but the rest of the progression is in C minor scale. So what key would this be? What scale is it following?

Chord Scale Finder for Music Composers.

[puzzlefactory]

Hmmmm, doesn't seem to come up with anything....

[Martin Gifford]

I've written a little chord progression that i really like but can't figure out what key it is in. The tonic chord is C major but the rest of the progression is in C minor scale.

Are you teasing us or something? You have to tell us the names of the rest of the chords. Or at least which kind of minor scale. Does it also end on C Major? It could modulate between a few keys. Need more info.

[puzzlefactory]

Ok, the chord progression goes C, Gm, G#, Bb. The last three chords are all part of the Cm scale (as i can see the lights flashing up on Push, which is set to Cm, when i play the chords on my keyboard) but obviously the tonic isn't part of the minor scale.

[stringtapper]

The progression is an example of non-functional harmony, typical in 20th century pop music, and so the entire idea of a key sort of disintegrates.

Most of the chords are derived from C minor but the tonic is never heard in its diatonic form. In functional harmony this is called a Picardy Third, when the third of the tonic chord in a minor key is raised to make it a major chord, often heard at the very end of a piece. This is sort of like that except you never actually get the minor tonic at all.

So looking at it statistically you'd probably say it's in C minor with the tonic chord always being borrowed from the parallel major key of C major. But again, the idea of keys begins to fall apart with harmony like this. If you were notating this the most efficient way to do it would be to have a key signature of C minor (3 flats [yes that middle chord would be Ab, not G#]) with an accidental raising the Eb to E-natural whenever the tonic chord happens.

tl;dr C minor with a borrowed major tonic …or… don't worry about what key it's in since its non-functional harmony anyway.

[puzzlefactory]

Cheers mate! I have been enlightened.

[doghouse]

Ok, the chord progression goes C, Gm, G#, Bb.

When talking about keys, there can only be one of each note. So technically it's not a G# chord, it's an Ab.

As stringtapper wrote, a lot of what we hear in modern pop doesn't actually fit standard classical harmony. Even something as simple as the blues, which was the basis for rock and R&B music for decades, doesn't fit into a single key.

I'd probably find that progression weird sounding with a C major chord but if you can make it work melodically, go for it.

[puzzlefactory]

Yeah it works. I'm using it in a Liquid DnB track and it has a very "epic" and "euphoric" feel to it. Somewhat akin to Netsky's track "When Darkness Falls".

[Angstrom]

erybody in the thread be playin that progression now. saying "huh"

Interesting the way the B goes to the Cmaj and doesn't really resolve. my fingers say D major is allowed and it properly resolves on E major.

But that's probably because it reminds me of a section in See the Sky About Rain - Neil Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSRYVun2GkE

[puzzlefactory]

I use a lot of inversions and the whole pattern has a descending followed by ascending feel to it due to the inversions I use. Like I say it seems to work. I'll post it here when I've finished.

[yur2die4]

Yeah, when I played around with it, it felt soulful. Bet it'd sound lush with some well-chosen 7ths.

It has that ascending in a minor key v VI VII thing, and then when you'd anticipate a minor chord you are abruptly uplifted and awoken by it choosing to be major.

[Martin Gifford]

Ok, the chord progression goes C, Gm, G#, Bb.

|C |Gm |Ab |Bb | ......... That is the C mixolydian mode, which is the fifth mode of F major. The odd one out is the Ab chord, so for that chord, the melody and bass might visit Ab Lydian, which is the fourth mode of the Eb major. So a little key change there.

The melody notes and the bass notes would be needed to confirm.

Bet it'd sound lush with some well-chosen 7ths.

Yes, Gmin7 and Abmaj7 could be very tasty depending on the mood and the melody and bass.

[stringtapper]

Ok, the chord progression goes C, Gm, G#, Bb.

|C |Gm |Ab |Bb | ......... That is the C mixolydian mode, which is the fifth mode of F major. The odd one out is the Ab chord, so for that chord, the melody and bass might visit Ab Lydian, which is the fourth mode of the Eb major. So a little key change there.

The problem with this analysis is that you're saying it is C Mixolydian and that the Ab is the odd one… but there is no A-natural to be found in any of the chords of the progression (assuming triads of course) for you to base the choice of C Mixolydian on before you have decided that Ab is odd.

So the path of least resistance really is C minor, or at least a three-flat key/mode with the major tonic being borrowed from the parallel major mode (called modal mixture).

[Martin Gifford]

The problem with this analysis is that you're saying it is C Mixolydian and that the Ab is the odd one… but there is no A-natural to be found in any of the chords of the progression (assuming triads of course) for you to base the choice of C Mixolydian on before you have decided that Ab is odd.

So the path of least resistance really is C minor, or at least a three-flat key/mode with the major tonic being borrowed from the parallel major mode (called modal mixture).

Don't see how the path of least resistance is to say C minor when the first chord is C major.

As soon as you see C to Gm, most people would think C mixolydian, then the Bb gives 3 out of 4 chords fitting that. I reckon any jazz guy would say C mixolydian. But it does need the melody and bass notes to confirm. For example, if there are lots of Eb's then you could say C blues, instead of C mixolydian.

C mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb C, i.e. 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8.

Interestingly, Ab7 is often used as a passing chord in C major.